need advise on backing out of buying something

realBabelfish · 18 Sep 2013 at 10:11

hi guys

my mum wanted to buy my son a climbing frame/swing/slide set for our garden.

so, we went to the place and got some measurements from him. mum wrote him a deposit cheque on the proviso that i can check the sizes at home to see if its not too big.

got home and checked his sizes with some clearance and told him its ok.

he then comes back and says those sizes arent big enough and he will come around to check.

comes around and lays out the sizes on the ground, with wife as i was at work.

sends me a text saying do we want to go ahead and sends me the price (not fully discussed up to this point as we didnt know matting sizes, install costs etc)

i send him a text saying mum is away for a few days so will let you know when she is back.

in the mean time we decide its too big (a fair bit bigger than initial sizes given) and tell him that we have decided against it and to destroy the deposit cheque like agreed.

he has now come back to me and said he has started it and is being funny with me.

where do i stand?

he never said he was working on it and asked if he should start, i never gave him the go ahead after the sizes were revised. he also said that as its not a custom job they would have no problems selling it to someone else

arghhhhhhhhhhh help!

V4NT0M · 18 Sep 2013 at 10:18

Deposit exists for exactly this reason?

Salsa · 18 Sep 2013 at 10:19

Phone bank, cancel cheque?

/Salsa

Nexus · 18 Sep 2013 at 10:22

Do you have any kind of contract/agreement/sales note?

tom_e · 18 Sep 2013 at 10:23

What's the point in the deposit if you can then decide to walk away and get it back, always look at deposits as non refundable.

realBabelfish · 18 Sep 2013 at 10:30

well, we did discuss that the desposit would be torn up if it was too big. it was more that if its ok then he had to cash to start.

in hindsight we shouldnt have given him anything as you say, although with an excited toddler running about i guess we were too distracted. i do have a record of all texts though.

deposits arent always non-refundable. online you can drop a deposit then cancel it and get your cash back.

Jono8 · 18 Sep 2013 at 10:31

As has been said, what was the point in the deposit?

Nexus · 18 Sep 2013 at 10:36

realBabelfish said:
well, we did discuss that the desposit would be torn up if it was too big. it was more that if its ok then he had to cash to start.

in hindsight we shouldnt have given him anything as you say, although with an excited toddler running about i guess we were too distracted. i do have a record of all texts though.

deposits arent always non-refundable. online you can drop a deposit then cancel it and get your cash back.

This isn't online though is it, there is no distance selling going on, you paid in person.

I totally see where tom_e is coming from, because you agreed to wanting something enough that you part paid for it. Presumably the staff/owner of the business had to put time in to measurements, coming around and delivery, so thats his time and money invested in it, regardless of how much you think his time may be worth and the relevance of a deposit.

If you were totally unsure, the best course of action would perhaps be to find a business that would give a proper quotation for free.

It all sounds a bit amateur though if the only evidence of anything is text messages.

413x · 18 Sep 2013 at 10:43

The moral thing to do would be loose the deposit on the face of this post

How morally sound are you? :-P

dirtychinchilla · 18 Sep 2013 at 10:45

If he had an agreement with the chap to tear up the cheque if this thing wouldn't fit, then it seems he's well within his rights to ask the guy to tear up the cheque. It's a deposit on the basis that the thing is actually correct. I don't see the problem.

if the chap has already started making it, then he's a bit silly and should really have waited. I would tell him that.

Jono8 · 18 Sep 2013 at 10:48

dirtychinchilla said:
If he had an agreement with the chap to tear up the cheque if this thing wouldn't fit, then it seems he's well within his rights to ask the guy to tear up the cheque. It's a deposit on the basis that the thing is actually correct. I don't see the problem.

if the chap has already started making it, then he's a bit silly and should really have waited. I would tell him that.

But then the deposit is entirely pointless.

Nexus · 18 Sep 2013 at 11:07

dirtychinchilla said:
If he had an agreement with the chap to tear up the cheque if this thing wouldn't fit, then it seems he's well within his rights to ask the guy to tear up the cheque. It's a deposit on the basis that the thing is actually correct. I don't see the problem.

if the chap has already started making it, then he's a bit silly and should really have waited. I would tell him that.

With no paperwork the whole thing is ridiculous though really.

For the business owner, is he really keeping proper books if he is taking deposits with no contract, a signed agreement or even a receipt? He also has no legal recourse himself for the business.

With the OP's side, if the money hasn't been taken, then yes he could get his bank to cancel the cheque, there is no agreement so the business owner can't do a thing. If however its already gone, its going to be difficult to take that back when there is nothing agreed between either party.

BuffetSlayer · 18 Sep 2013 at 11:15

Jono8 said:
But then the deposit is entirely pointless.

Not really his problem though is it? If a 'gentlemans' agreement was made to the effect described, then the guy should tear up the cheque as agreed.

If he has started work on something without the definite knowledge that it will all fit, or receiving a definite go ahead from his client, then that is his loss.

The deposit is pointless in this situation, but only because (presumably) the tradesman has asked for one but then also said he will tear it up if the thing does not fit etc etc. It is not the client at fault here to my mind.

I would cancel the Cheque ASAP and tell him to jog on. If he wants to play deposit games he needs to start putting it in writing and getting people to sign. At the end of the day, if you have no contract with him, or have signed no paperwork you are well within your right to cancel the Cheque. Did he even give you a receipt for it? Ask him if he declared it through his books

Cheers

Buff

Dugganator · 18 Sep 2013 at 11:20

Hmmm I have never dealt with a business that wouldn't give you measurement before writing a cheque? Lesson learned really get all the measurement and stuff before writing cheques or make sure that its a free quote beforehand .

But like others have said you could call the bank and cancel the cheque.

realBabelfish · 18 Sep 2013 at 11:22

dirtychinchilla said:
If he had an agreement with the chap to tear up the cheque if this thing wouldn't fit, then it seems he's well within his rights to ask the guy to tear up the cheque. It's a deposit on the basis that the thing is actually correct. I don't see the problem.

if the chap has already started making it, then he's a bit silly and should really have waited. I would tell him that.

yes, we had an agreement. it was that i would check given his dimensions. if all was ok he would proceed.

Nexus said:
With no paperwork the whole thing is ridiculous though really.

For the business owner, is he really keeping proper books if he is taking deposits with no contract, a signed agreement or even a receipt? He also has no legal recourse himself for the business.

With the OP's side, if the money hasn't been taken, then yes he could get his bank to cancel the cheque, there is no agreement so the business owner can't do a thing. If however its already gone, its going to be difficult to take that back when there is nothing agreed between either party.

BuffetSlayer said:
Not really his problem though is it? If a 'gentlemans' agreement was made to the effect described, then the guy should tear up the cheque as agreed.

If he has started work on something without the definite knowledge that it will all fit, or receiving a definite go ahead from his client, then that is his loss.

The deposit is pointless in this situation, but only because (presumably) the tradesman has asked for one but then also said he will tear it up if the thing does not fit etc etc. It is not the client at fault here to my mind.

I would cancel the Cheque ASAP and tell him to jog on. If he wants to play deposit games he needs to start putting it in writing and getting people to sign. At the end of the day, if you have no contract with him, or have signed no paperwork you are well within your right to cancel the Cheque. Did he even give you a receipt for it? Ask him if he declared it through his books

Cheers

Buff

come to think of it he did do a receipt for the £200. i think mum has it. i had forgotten about that!

and as i say, its a frame that isnt bespoke and he can easily sell it to another person. he was given no instruction to build it after the dims were called into question and his last text was ' do you want me to go ahead' and i never said 'yes'

yes, we are foolish for even giving a deposit. live and learn i guess. its just that its my mum's money and not mine

Doomedspeed · 18 Sep 2013 at 11:23

A deposit without a contract (agreed payment amount and timeframe, inc measurements) is a bit silly really..

You have no legal agreement with him, so just cancel the cheque (if you still can) and tell him you don't require the product any more..

Nexus · 18 Sep 2013 at 11:25

I'm confused though by how he started it if you didn't give the go ahead?

Did he come around and let himself into your garden unannounced, which I think just about everyone knows is totally wrong.

Or has a family member allowed him to do so when he knocked on the door, which would likely be an acknowledgement, even if it didn't come from you.... given it also sounds like the deposit had nothing to do with you personally either.

Maundie · 18 Sep 2013 at 11:27

Why didn't you get him round to measure up and make sure all was ok on both sides (your's and his) before handing over a deposit cheque?

realBabelfish · 18 Sep 2013 at 11:30

Dugganator said:
Hmmm I have never dealt with a business that wouldn't give you measurement before writing a cheque? Lesson learned really get all the measurement and stuff before writing cheques or make sure that its a free quote beforehand .

But like others have said you could call the bank and cancel the cheque.

he gave me measurements but not too accurate as he had a 2swing version in the yard and we only had possibly space for a single swing one (with big spiral slide, climbing wall and castle thing on the top - it was great and im gutted it wont fit lol, i quite fancied playing in there with him)

so, i took the measurements back home and set out with some clearance around it. then he texts me saying the dims are wrong and he wants to come check it out. then lays it out and its much bigger that we thought.

realBabelfish · 18 Sep 2013 at 11:32

Nexus said:
I'm confused though by how he started it if you didn't give the go ahead?

Did he come around and let himself into your garden unannounced, which I think just about everyone knows is totally wrong.

Or has a family member allowed him to do so when he knocked on the door, which would likely be an acknowledgement, even if it didn't come from you.... given it also sounds like the deposit had nothing to do with you personally either.

he came round when the wife was in. if i was there i would have told him then and there its too big.

we never asked him to start on it. im not sure why he did until he had been given the go-ahead.