Baby Crushed to Death at Airport

[Jokester]

From the facts of the news article - the airport I doubt can be criminally trialed. Sued at the most by the mother in that case Tort we are talking about and that's a whole different story but on the topic of who's criminal liable, there was no break in the chain of causation from the mothers actions to the death. That's like implying if a child runs out into the road and a car speeding hits it and kills it, the council or people responsible for the road should be liable as they haven't got fences blocking children accessing the road. If anyone is to be trialed it will be the mother.

Well by your argument, anyone and everyone in the UK that's killed someone in an accident they caused should be locked up for manslaughter. But they're not, as you seem to be missing one of the key requirements for recklessness which is it needs to be obvious to the average person that what they did could result in deaths. It's fairly obvious that running out into the road is reckless and why it's one of the first things we teach our kids not to do.

For the airport though, it wasn't just obvious, they actually knew it was a risk so put signs up. If it was in the UK, the HSE would now be looking to see if there was an adequate risk assessment carried out and whether the outcome was implemented and if not whether there was suffcient grounds for prosecution under HSE law - in a sort of perverse way it's better to be ignorant about the risk, at least for the first accident!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...c-accident-conveyor-belt-Spanish-airport.html

It doesn't look dangerous because it is flat. I just can't imagine how it happened.

That witness certainly couldn't see a risk there either.

I think the correct way to view it is:

1) A reasonable person could probably foresee the risk in placing a young child on heavy machinery;

2) The airport (at least partially) satisfied its duty of care by placing such signs that the plant was dangerous; and

3) It's extremely unlikely a prosecution against the mother would be made in such tragic circumstances.

The child wasn't placed on the belt, it was dropped when the mother tried to retrieve a stuck pushchair and the belt automatically started knocking her over and subsequently made her drop the kid on the belt out of her baby sling.

Certainly I don't see the mother being prosecuted. If it was the UK, the airport or maybe even the conveyor belt supplier could conceivably be prosecuted, but certainly they would be getting told to improve the belts (most obvious thing is to remove the big gap in the middle and to add a guard) to ensure it didn't happen again.

 

[Nitefly]

The child wasn't placed on the belt, it was dropped when the mother tried to retrieve a stuck pushchair and the belt automatically started knocking her over and subsequently made her drop the kid on the belt out of her baby sling.

If that's the case it certainly makes the mum less culpable.

 

[Jokester]

If that's the case it certainly makes the mum less culpable.

I might go the other way, I can't decide if there is actually a glass guard from the photo or not

 

[Woden]

I am going by the news article presented to all of us and if that's the facts then she should/will be prosecuted.

Very unlikely she will/should be prosecuted, in fact from what I have seen (and that is not much from the articles) its the airport that is liable.

Why wasn't there staff there to say "OI! GERROFF THE BELT!"? They say she was struggling with a stuck pushchair (probably in the mavity rollers) but none of the staff have been trained to turn it off and help? They just leave the general public to crawl over heavy machinery?

We have those machines at work, well very similar (I work for a delivery company), about 30 of them. The one in the photo is built wrong, inherently unsafe. Their needs to be a strip of metal or nylon covering the gap between the two belts, or anything can get stuck in there.

Heavy machinery that automatically starts moving with weight ... easily accessible to the general public? On what planet is that a good idea?

 

[Sin_Chase]

Far too many variables for any of us to comment with any kind of authority. It makes for interesting speculation though.

Was the signage present with words to the effect of "THIS BELT MAY START WITHOUT WARNING". If yes, it is reasonable to expect a stopped belt to start. If no, it could be argued that the starting of the belt without warning was unexpected and the automatic mechanism that started the belt was the causation that ultimately led to the tragic accident.

Applying the 'reasonable person test' would likely reveal that placing a child on a luggage conveyor belt is unwise, irrespective of any signage or prior knowledge of such a machine.

Just because someone completes an offence does not mean a prosecution will occur. Luckily we do not live in a world where everyone is prosecuted for every offence blindly.]

From a personal opinion POV - I think it is ridiculous you can have a weight sensor based starting mechanism on the public facing side of heavy machinery. Simply because the first question that ANYONE would ask is "What if someone stands/falls/collapses/messes about on this?"

 

[Destination]

Obviously the entire story is not remotely clear as yet, but if she was at baggage collection, then surely any belt would be travelling into the hall not out.
It does seem strange such a belt activates at the end of its cycle, not at the start where the outsized luggage would first be loaded.
One of the initial stories said the belt might have been activated by weight, or by a staff member.

Thankfully any UK belt I have ever encountered makes one hell of a lot of noise prior to its activation.

 

[Hedge]

When we got back from cape Verde this year there was a young couple with their young only child at our baggage collection, a lovely little girl who was getting attention from all the older women. As the conveyor belt moved the mother was holding her little girl over it as she used it like a treadmill. The girl was too young to walk.

Everyone watched and was like ' Awwwwww so cute '. My girlfriend and I included. The mother was a really nice friendly down to earth girl as was the dad. At no point did anyone kick up a fuss about recklessness.

I can't imagine how bad this Woman must feel. Lots of angry folk on here are spouting stuff without accepting that something tragic happened from a mistake. Someone's child died.. The child of the woman who loved and cherished her little one.

 

[Hedge]

Just thought..

When I was a boy my Father used to throw me up in the air and catch me. I loved it, laughing hysterically. Could I have hit my head on a ceiling? Maybe. Could I have been dropped? Possibly. Was my Dad a stupid wreckless scumbag? Definitely not.

Outside of this tragedy parents everywhere do things without considering the extreme unlikely risk.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

Outside of this tragedy parents everywhere do things without considering the extreme unlikely risk.

Except for Robgum, he's perfect and has every angle cornered.

 

[topgun23]

What a terible tragedy and appears to be a complete accident now over the news the baby was left on a baggage belt. Awful

 

[StriderX]

Very unlikely she will/should be prosecuted, in fact from what I have seen (and that is not much from the articles) its the airport that is liable.

Why wasn't there staff there to say "OI! GERROFF THE BELT!"? They say she was struggling with a stuck pushchair (probably in the mavity rollers) but none of the staff have been trained to turn it off and help? They just leave the general public to crawl over heavy machinery?

We have those machines at work, well very similar (I work for a delivery company), about 30 of them. The one in the photo is built wrong, inherently unsafe. Their needs to be a strip of metal or nylon covering the gap between the two belts, or anything can get stuck in there.

Heavy machinery that automatically starts moving with weight ... easily accessible to the general public? On what planet is that a good idea?

A planet where Spain has money issues, Germany up its rectum and not quite the same overindulgent PC/H&S culture as we do.

 

[robgmun]

Her behaviour wasn't reckless, she would never ever face prosecution in this country.

It basically boils done weather if you think she was reckless or not. I think she was utterly reckless. You don't think she was reckless at all.

Bear in mind it's the risk that must be foreseeable.

As stated before, I think it was foreseeable because SHE WAS ON TOP OF A BLOODY CONVEYOR BELT!!!!!111. There must be some right plebs in this forum because they think i'm some kind of perfect superhuman for thinking it

 

[Orch]

There must be some right plebs in this forum because they think i'm some kind of perfect superhuman for thinking it

No No No. We, or I at least, think you're an idiot for believing you can foresee all eventualities and will therefore never make a mistake when it comes to your children.

That is both arrogant and stupid in equal measures.

Clearly, climbing on board a potentially moving piece of machinery whilst holding a baby, is stupid.

 

[Jokester]

It basically boils done weather if you think she was reckless or not. I think she was utterly reckless. You don't think she was reckless at all.



As stated before, I think it was foreseeable because SHE WAS ON TOP OF A BLOODY CONVEYOR BELT!!!!!111. There must be some right plebs in this forum because they think i'm some kind of perfect superhuman for thinking it

What's the difference between a conveyor belt and a moving walkway/escalator? It would have been entirely safe if it wasn't for the massive gap in between two belts.

 

[Xordium]

There must be some right plebs in this forum because they think i'm some kind of perfect superhuman for thinking it

No it was for the arrogant way you said you could envisage all possibilities. Which in my eyes is pretty stupid.

 

[robgmun]

What's the difference between a conveyor belt and a moving walkway/escalator? It would have been entirely safe if it wasn't for the massive gap in between two belts.

Massive difference, one is built exclusively for humans to use and is a technology that's been thoroughly tested for 100 years to ensure humans don't kill themselves using it. But even then there are right morons about still manage even that because there are videos of people getting themselves killed on escalators

 

[Hicks]

Just read this thread and I started off like this when I read the article.

After I read the first 5 pages and Mumsnetmachine and RobDum's posts I was like

After reading the rest of the thread I'm like

Really????

Even if she is stupid, you really think that anything she did had any malice towards her own child? Jetlagged, spun out from travelling and just generally knackered and then making an horrific mistake. You think punishing someone who will more than likely be suicidal anyway is the way to go?
I can only assume that some of you don't really have any real life experience.
Empathy? Do you gots any???
Sad

 

[SexyGreyFox]

There must be some right plebs in this forum because they think i'm some kind of perfect superhuman for thinking it

What about the super human that arrogantly said this? -

For me personally? I'm always thinking about possible outcomes to all situations. That's why in my 37 years not a single bad thing has happened to me or my loved ones because i'm able to protect myself and them from doing stupid things.

Wow

 

[robgmun]

whats wow about that simple? I've had a great track record so far.

 

[Biohazard]

Oh god, what a horrible story.