Projector for a small media room

Avenged7Fold · 21 Sep 2013 at 19:49

I have decided to convert my garage to a media room. My expertise unfortunately do not stretch to projectors. I would like to set up a projector that will be mainly used to watch films at up to 1080p (mostly under). I am playing with the idea of gaming on this projector but as i understand, due to the lag you get on some projectors, this may limit my choice massively when you also take note of my small throw distance. I am not bothered about 3d.

I don't normally venture to this dark area of the overclockers forums so i don't know what sort of information you will need to spec me a projector.

Uses: mainly to watch films up to 1080p, maybe gaming no higher than 1080p

Screen size: At least 60" up to 90"

Max throw: 2.5-3m

Room will have black walls and ceilings and has no windows to let in light if it makes a difference.

As for a budget, i am unsure on this part which is probably the most important part. My conversion is mid way done and if I run into complications i will have to cut the budget. So if people could suggest the lowest budget option which will suit my needs as well as a mid range one, it would be great. A few lines about the cons of the low budget suggestions will be extremely helpful. I see a large number of projectors for sale from quite cheap to very expensive and showing very similar throw distance and resolutions so i am lost as to the differences between them, for which i am sure there are many.

Would it be better to just buy a LED TV? (the novelty of a projector sounds too appealing at the moment but if it will cost me a pretty penny, i may just have to settle for a TV)

Projector is bought, Thank you for all the help

lucid · 21 Sep 2013 at 23:20

Sounds like you'll have a perfect room for projection, or for TV if that's where you end up. Have you actually priced up what a big TV with decent gaming performance (low input lag) will cost?

Avenged7Fold · 21 Sep 2013 at 23:34

If i have to use a TV, i would rather stick to my current monitors when gaming and use the TV for console and movies when friends are round.

Ideally, due to the room layout, id like to see some projectors with a smaller throw distance than i have given in OP, for peace of mind. Like i mentioned earlier, the conversion is half done and the estimate on space is based on quotes given to me by builders. If any of you have had to rely on quotes from builders before, i am sure you understand why i would like to be conservative on throw distance.

Psycho Sonny · 21 Sep 2013 at 23:58

thing with a large plasma is you get really amazing PQ for cheap, which you can easily add a cheap decent soundbar too and connect multiple devices up easily on the cheap.

with a projector you would ideally need a really long HDMI cable going into a AV receiver which you connect all your devices up to and you would ideally need to channel this through the ceiling and walls in order to make it look good which is gonna cost money.

decent AV receivers cost a lot of money too, then add in the speakers on top.

then add in the cost of a half decent projector, a decent screen or projector paint for the wall.

your talking a lot of money here, sure you could do it on the cheap as well; basically get a low end projector, point it at a white wall and connect it to some pc speakers, but it's just not the same thing.

if your gonna go down the whole home cinema route of getting a projector then i would want to do the job properly than do it on the cheap.

whereas a 51" E8000 for £899 plus a yamaha soundbar for £160 is a good compromise until you can afford to throw several G's at a proper home cinema.

lucid · 22 Sep 2013 at 03:33

Psycho Sonny isn't a projector fan. Me, I like projectors and TVs. Each have their place. IMO if you have a dedicated room for movies and gaming then you really want a big screen. Otherwise you might as well save some money and just use the lounge; right?

Before talking about what to buy let's put things in to perspective.... Small TVs (<43") are available at really cheap prices. Ones that are good for gaming cost a bit more. But the problem is they're still small. Home cinema projection really starts at 6ft diagonal (72") screen sizes. So a comparable sized TV is going to cost a fair bit. It's not quite big enough, but the 64" version of the E8000 Samsung suggested by Psycho Sonny would weigh in at around the £1900 mark. Add £50 or so for a reasonable quality bracket. Now compare what you could do with projection:

An Optoma GT760 is a HD Ready gaming projector with a ridiculously short throw lens. In rough terms, at just 1m throw distance it will give a 90" diagonal 16:9 image. To do that with a TV would mean buying the 90" Sharp at around £9300. By comparison the Optoma is just £550.

Even if you go the whole hog and buy a decent 90" fixed frame screen (Screen International 90" @ £400), a projector ceiling bracket (£100), and a 10m quality HDMI cable (£30) you've still only spent 12% of the cost of the big Sharp telly. Now compare projection with the cheaper Samsung TV, that TV costs you almost twice as much for half the screen area. When it comes to really big screens, projectors win. It's that simple.

The next two arguments are commonly fired at projection.... Lamp costs and lighting levels.

Yes, projectors burn lamps and lamps cost money. But the £7,500 you saved not buying the big Sharp telly will buy an awful lot of lamps. Enough for about 60 years worth of use (Yes, that's sixty years, it's not a typo

) The lamp for the GT760 will be around £120. Depending how you run it you'll get somewhere between 3000 and 5000 hrs from a lamp. That's around 2 hrs of man cave time every single day for about a year before you need to put a new one in. The consumable cost for the lamp is somewhere between 2 and 4 pence per hour. That's pretty good value.

Lighting; or more specifically that you need total blackout for a projector to work properly. In absolute terms that's still true. However, projectors have got so bright and with such high native contrast now that they are very tolerant of ambient lighting... in moderation. What you don't do is install lights directly above the screen and have them on when trying to watch a horror film set at night. What you can do though is watch an ordinary movie, or TV, or do a bit of gaming and still have enough light on in the room so you can read a newspaper. It's all about directing the light away from the screen.

The entire projector market ranges from under £200 to about £250,000 for the big digital cinema stuff. Within that range, home cinema projectors span from £450~£125,000. So the GT750 at £550 is a long way from being top-of-the-range or big money for what it does. What it is though is a very worthwhile step up for £100 from the cheapest home cinema projectors.

If you want to know my credentials then have a read of this and this

Best of luck with your home cinema install

Rroff · 22 Sep 2013 at 03:47

I've played the odd game on various flavors of Optoma projector without noticing any significant input lag (and I'm pretty sensitive to it) not tried gaming on much outside of that range tho to see what its like in general with projectors. (Though if you enable features like Image AI it does become a little more noticeable).

TVs in general seem to have more input latency than most other display types in general - a lot probably due to the post processing common on TVs tho on some you can disable that for gaming and/or its not used when connected via "VGA".

Avenged7Fold · 22 Sep 2013 at 03:50

Psycho Sonny said:
... sure you could do it on the cheap as well; basically get a low end projector, point it at a white wall and connect it to some pc speakers, but it's just not the same thing.

Can you spec a few examples of low end projectors and the major disadvantages to choosing such budget projectors?

I have decent sound system of which i built myself whilst studying a few years ago, as well as surround sound for my PC's which i find adequate for my current gaming and movie uses, are either of these not acceptable to use with a projector?

Routing cables is also not an issue because the room is still half way converted. If i was planning on routing cables, now is the time to decide. Wont cost me any extra, since the inner walls and the finished floor/ceiling are not yet finished. I am not after a premium home theater experience really if a couple of G's is the cost. I would put it towards upgrading servers if i had that money floating about and would settle for a budget set up if there is a need. Like i mentioned in the first post, it is the novelty of it which has spurred my interests rather than the possibility of a large screen and high image quality to match. What i consider watchable in terms of movies is probably considered unwatchable by most in this part of the forums (for example, i am absolutely fine watching a film in 480p on a 24 inch monitor)

Rroff · 22 Sep 2013 at 04:23

You can do it on the cheap and not have a terrible setup - my current setup which is a step down from what I used to have is basically my original Optoma HD70 (still going strong) with a pair of Edifier 1600ts and a run of the mill grey screen and I can't say I'm unhappy with it.

Previously had a HD20/Kef surround setup but ended up seeing it as massively overkill for my needs (wasn't gaming on it and at the time the average blu-ray transfer really didn't take advantage of the difference between 720p/1080p enough). I'd probably go back to 1080p if I was gaming on it though. (Have to admit a lot of my "HD" content at the moment is netflix HD and iTunes so the lack of true 1080p isn't really holding that content back - again I might reconsider if I was watching more proper 1080p material.)

I have to say for me the novelty of the projector over a TV has never really gone away, theres something about the experience of a wall sized display when watching movies.

The Optoma GT760 lucid linked to looks like a really solid projector to build a home setup around - half tempted now to get one and uprate my setup a little.

Avenged7Fold · 22 Sep 2013 at 06:21

Thanks for the replys.

Since i have plenty of time before the room is finished, i can have a little look round for a second hand one. A friend of mine from down the road says he has a Toshiba TACP TDP-MT200 and that he will part from it for less than 200 quid due to the fact that he never figured out how to set it up and couldn't be bothered to get a screen and it was sitting around for however long. Will this projector suit my needs?

I checked it on a throw distance calculator and it seems maybe a bit on the long side if the room length quote becomes conservative. It apparently is also not in production anymore, so would bulbs be expensive and difficult to find?

lucid · 22 Sep 2013 at 08:52

Your mates Tosh looks expensive compared to its peers

s/h Tosh HT200 - s/h - 2005 vintage - 700 ANSI lumens - 2000:1 contrast, 854x480 native resolution - no 1080p signal support - unspecified lamp hours - £200

vs

s/h Optoma GT7000 Gametime - 2008 vintage - 1600 ANSI - 4000:1 contrast, 1280x720 native resolution - supports 1080p/1080i/720p and lower - 300hr used on lamp - £250 but could haggle down. LINK

The Tosh comes from a time when projectors were far more expensive. Entry-level 720p at the time was around £2500. The MT700 is 480p and sold new for around £1800 back in 2005 I believe. Within three years 480p was obsolete replaced by 720p, performance had improved and entry level prices had plummeted to under £700.

At £200 your mate is taking a hell of a beating from what he paid. But the market has shifted a lot. If he advertised on the classifieds at AV Forums there'd be no bites at £200. He'd get a sniff at £100.

Lamps for that projector are cheap though. Less than £150 for a genuine unit.

lucid · 22 Sep 2013 at 08:56

s/h Draper Onyx 92" fixed frame screen. £1000 new. Up for sale at under £100 due to location and cost of postage. LINK That's a steal if the condition is okay.

FNG · 22 Sep 2013 at 10:13

s/h Draper Onyx 92" fixed frame screen. £1000 new. Up for sale at under £100 due to location and cost of postage. LINK That's a steal if the condition is okay.

Ain't it just. And oh look, *someone* has already offered the asking price a week ago

lucid · 22 Sep 2013 at 11:36

FNG said:
Ain't it just. And oh look, *someone* has already offered the asking price a week ago

Well, if you look no deal has been done. But thanks for your cynicism. It's people like you that make professionals like me look at forums and wonder why the hell I'm wasting my time trying to offer help. :rolleyes:

FNG · 22 Sep 2013 at 12:05

Hahahaha. It was meant to be a joke; I am the one that has put an offer in. Guess some things just don't convey themselves the way you mean it in a message

Avenged7Fold · 22 Sep 2013 at 18:08

Thanks guys, i'll send an e-mail and wait for a reply but i think i have like a month and a half before the room is ready for use. Time is a luxury i am forced to have in this case and int he end will probably help me nab a nice deal... hopefully.

spoffle · 22 Sep 2013 at 18:46

Psycho Sonny, you don't half talk some arse in a lot of threads. On what planet is spending £1060 on a plasma TV and a sound bar comparable to a projector, AV receiver and speakers?

It's like you're completely ignoring the fact that a low end A/V receiver and speakers is going to be better than a soundbar.

You can easily get a projector, AV/Receiver, speakers and a screen for <£1200. Why do you have to talk rubbish to try and put people off things?

To the OP, something like this A/V receiver + speaker package:

http://www.richersounds.com/package/system-savers/home-cinema-separates-bundle-deals/pah011079

With this projector

http://www.richersounds.com/product/projectors/benq/w1070/benq-w1070

And this sort of screen:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-120-E..._Vision_Projector_Screens&hash=item5d368de5d4

Will set you back about £100 more than PsychoSonny's suggestion of a 51" plasma and sound bar.

It's pretty obvious which one would be significantly better.

Avenged7Fold · 22 Sep 2013 at 21:07

Thanks guys.

Don't need screen specing, though i do appreciate all the links. They are not going to waste btw, i do research every one of them and trying to find second hand ones and comparing specs with throw distances and screen sizes.

I have a number of speakers I already use for watching films and gaming. As for the receivers, i am not sure what they do or how i will benefit from them. I am planning to run the projector from one of my PC's and the speakers off one of the PCs sound card (although i may have to settle for my A40 headset until i arrange some better sound proofing, which will be done last) is this feasible or is AV receiver a must?

My motivation for this media room was originally to have a place to put my extra PC's and server while i upgrade or do new builds. After thinking about the little extra effort to black the walls out and make the room projector friendly, i decided to also use it as a media room but again i am by no means an audiophile or a projector nut. Main aim of this thread is to be able to do what i already do now on my PC (play games and watch films) but just on a larger projected screen.

Maybe after the new consoles have been around for a bit i may look into getting one and setting it up the room better to accommodate some friends coming round to waste some of their lives drinking, watching bad 1980 horror movies and shouting profanities at COD multiplayer server inhabitants.

lucid · 23 Sep 2013 at 00:25

An AV Receiver makes sense if your sources are things such as consoles, Blu-ray players and Sky/Freeview boxes. The receiver (A.K.A AV amp) will take all those sources and decode the sound and also act as a video switch. Trying to make a PC do the same thing for multiple external sources is a PITA. You'll have a really hard time trying to deal with the best quality audio formats from a Blu-ray player and forthcoming games on the new consoles if they go beyond basic ProLogic or Dolby Digital in to HD Audio. However, if the PC is your only source then stick with the self-powered PC speakers.

Room colour doesn't have to be black. Yes, it's the most effect background for the screen. But it's a bit extreme. Other options are a little more attractive without compromising performance too much. Tri-colour tonal schemes based on dark chocolate or cappuccino work well. Then there's patterned wallpapers. Matt black with a raised velvet leopard print sounds awful but looks amazing as a feature wall cover behind the screen. LINK

As a side note, when you are ready for a screen don't waste your money on a cheap manual or electric. The surfaces never lie flat for long, and when they start to ripplle then anything moving across the screen will ripple with it. It looks awful.

Psycho Sonny · 23 Sep 2013 at 13:05

and where did i say a soundbar is better than an av receiver and separates? i even stated that it would be a compromise you could make until you could afford them in order to get a better tv now.

even a 12 year old could figure out a soundbar is going to be worse than a 5.1 speaker system which costs over 2 times as much for surround sound, etc.

also the other guy comparing a 90" tv to a 90" projector setup is also hilarious. that would be like me comparing a formula one car (costs millions) to a motorbike (costs less than £20K), yes both of them can go fast, but built for completely different things.

i was just saying that i would prefer to spend at least £3K on a projector and speaker setup and do it properly, than do it on the cheap and end up with a significantly lower quality of picture compared to a top end plasma, which is what i own currently and I am used to. so therefore I wouldn't want to take a step backwards that way.

to me PQ and SIZE matter, but PQ more so that's why for the £1K budget i would go plasma, since slim tv's have terrible built in speakers these days thats why i would get a soundbar minimum in order to be able to enjoy it even more.

i would also dedicate a projector to it's own room, not just have it setup in say the main living room or a bedroom, in order to customise the room in order for better PQ and make the home cinema experience even better.

so to go back to the OP

I would like to set up a projector that will be mainly used to watch films at up to 1080p (mostly under). I am playing with the idea of gaming on this projector but as i understand, due to the lag you get on some projectors, this may limit my choice massively when you also take note of my small throw distance

mostly under 1080P content = go plasma imo

gaming = go plasma again so long as it's not got too much static content or for long periods of time, then IR will become an issue, which means go projector or LCD.

in fact if i was in his shoes, i would go plasma 51" E8000 for £900.

then save up £3-4K then buy a projector and an av receiver setup in a year or two down the line.

<1080P content is going to look awful on a 90" screen in a small room with close viewing distances is it not compared to say a top end plasma?

Spook187 · 23 Sep 2013 at 13:41

That looks a good setup for the price spoffle

Is there any disadvantages of having the projector sitting on a table(pack up and take away when not used) point at a certain degree up towards the wall, as fitting it on my ceiling is not a option given the hight of my room is large.