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FX6300 + GTX770

Is this like the benchmarks that were before drivers and patches?

The GPU's were scorned for issues like with crossfire, and now they have had some software tweaks they are suddenly decent and evidently better value than the other camp.
It's not graphic card issue, the game is crazy CPU demanding (i.e. 30-40 players fighting a world boss and its minions; World vs World with 30 players vs 30 players blasting and slashing each other).

And no I'm not talking about benchmarks, I'm talking about actual frame rate I get when I play. Playing games like Guild Wars 2 really makes me shake fist at Intel and wanna yell "GET A MOVE ON!! (with the performance increase with new CPUs) Stop giving us these 10% increase per gen BS".
 
An overclocked Sandy i5 and overclocked FX-8 on the same clock with all cores used are roughly on par with one another; however, we can count games that use up to 8 cores/threads with just the fingers on our two hands (one hand if we were looking at just games on Steam).

Not disagreeing with what your saying marine, the only part I would make note on is the inbound layer of tweaks coming from mantle and if you also paired the PD cpu (gotta love them 8 cores - right! ;) ) with an AMD GPU which has GCN then surely even if only a handful of games coming within the next 18 months may mean it's not such a bad decision?

Dont forget I am at a critical point in upgrading from a C2D here and not something which is 20% weaker than FX8/i5.

My other point is that personally I dont just play games and those extra cores may come in handy some day. I do contribute to the OcUK F@H team and sometimes encode so it could be more useful than to someone just out to 'game'.

As my budget is pretty weak I was considering the 6300 thanks to your input but maybe this is a backward step. I just want a decent upgrade - thinking FX8 is a good choice, only to hear it is gimped albeit by dearer competitor.

My choice (and others too) would be far easier if SR was imminent and we knew what board/socket.

:)
 
It's not graphic card issue, the game is crazy CPU demanding (i.e. 30-40 players fighting a world boss and its minions; World vs World with 30 players vs 30 players blasting and slashing each other).

And no I'm not talking about benchmarks, I'm talking about actual frame rate I get when I play. Playing games like Guild Wars 2 really makes me shake fist at Intel and wanna yell "GET A MOVE ON!! (with the performance increase with new CPUs)".

Marine - I know what your saying, I played PS2 and you are dead on. Some including you have mentioned the handful of games that support lots of cores. Well GW2, PS2 etc might only be a handful of games that are insanely CPU dependent - that would bear heavily on your decision if you played those style of games.
 
Not disagreeing with what your saying marine, the only part I would make note on is the inbound layer of tweaks coming from mantle and if you also paired the PD cpu (gotta love them 8 cores - right! ;) ) with an AMD GPU which has GCN then surely even if only a handful of games coming within the next 18 months may mean it's not such a bad decision?

Dont forget I am at a critical point in upgrading from a C2D here and not something which is 20% weaker than FX8/i5.

My other point is that personally I dont just play games and those extra cores may come in handy some day. I do contribute to the OcUK F@H team and sometimes encode so it could be more useful than to someone just out to 'game'.

As my budget is pretty weak I was considering the 6300 thanks to your input but maybe this is a backward step. I just want a decent upgrade - thinking FX8 is a good choice, only to hear it is gimped albeit by dearer competitor.

My choice (and others too) would be far easier if SR was imminent and we knew what board/socket.

:)
Extra cores WILL come in handy one day yes, but it wouldn't be in the form of Piledriver (as it's already be proven to be on par with an i5 at best in games that use up to 8 threads/cores, and certainly wouldn't suddenly destroy the i5). If I want to get a affordable 8 cores, I'd wait for whatever AMD has up next (wanna say SR, but then there's rumours about cancellation/skipping etc?) and hope for the best.

As for Mantle, from what I understand it work mostly as a feature of the GCN GPU in a way of bypassing the need of using directx, thus improving efficiency and reducing the stress needed to be placed on the CPU. But it would means it might work the same regardless of it being AMD or Intel CPU, so there might not be merit of having a AMD CPU over a Intel CPU for using Mantle? We'll have to wait for reviews and see about that.

However, we'd still have to think about the performance for games that doesn't support Mantle as well.
 
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Yes you get what wavelength I am on - fantastic. I unfortunately am disappointed as I think either a SR 8 core or a similar intel offering are gonna be months off potentially a year.
 
Yes you get what wavelength I am on - fantastic. I unfortunately am disappointed as I think either a SR 8 core or a similar intel offering are gonna be months off potentially a year.
I guess the realistic question you should ask yourself is- "what level of graphic card(s) will I be getting?" If the answer is it would be a single GPU cards that doesn't not exceed GTX780's level and will be using it for the next 3 years or more, then I would say just try to keep an eye on bargin deals of the i7 4770K and socket 1150 board, upgrade to that (and then overclock it) and be done with it. Even if the AMD's next 8 cores CPU is really THAT amazing, it would mean very little if you are not going beyond the level of a single GTX780 in terms of graphic grunt.
 
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My GPU situation is this:

I have two 7770's due to snapping them up within a week of each other for ridiculous cheap price and have run them on my rig for past 5 months. I managed to play PS2 and some other titles but this CPU is now a bottleneck.

My plan would be to use these in the next rig for lets say 6 months until I could afford a R9 290 or a 7990 something around that performance mark (long term). This could have course change but my current thoughts.
 
Scientific research? How about some simple benchmarks instead?
http://www.techradar.com/reviews/pc-mac/pc-components/processors/amd-fx-8350-1110369/review
http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/46985-amd-fx-8350/?page=5
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_fx_8350_processor_review,18.html

Choosing hardware is about understanding the reality of things, accepting it, and then choose the most appropriate option available for the purpose.

With computer parts I always look to the future when buying anything. So at first I bought one 670 (this is recently as an example) and then I bought another just to cover me. Oddly enough it came into its own with titles like Crysis 3.

An overclocked Sandy i5 and overclocked FX-8 on the same clock with all cores used are roughly on par with one another; however, we can count games that use up to 8 cores/threads with just the fingers on our two hands (one hand if we were looking at just games on Steam).

Not correct. An overclocked quad core Haswell clock for clock is about dead even with the 8320. 8320 sits between the 3570k and 3770k. We (Martini, I an some others) demonstrated this a couple of days back using a benchmark that supported every CPU. It's also easily demonstrated with a game like Crysis 3, Far Cry 3, BF3 and even BFBC2.

And then there's price. Around £200 for a 8320 and half decent board. That was a major part of the reason I went 8320. Well, that and simple forward thinking really. We've been at the mercy of consoles since (IMO partly) games like NFS : Underground. After that the 360 and PS3 took over gaming completely. The PS2 was miles behind the PC and the 360 somewhat caught up but yes, since then it's been console first PC later.

Two consoles are about to launch, both use AMD CPUs with 8 cores and a specific instruction set. The same one that would be used on a FX CPU. It didn't really take rocket science on my part to realise what would be the safer bet. It was also much cheaper.

I've got a lot of games. I've played through most of the heavy titles recently and had no issues at all with any of them.

Intel's CPU is far from perfect, and I have cursed them many times for the stupid focus on reducing power consumption, intergrated graphic when they should be focusing on increasing IPC in bigger margin than the incremental improvement over the pass two gens- 20% increase bringing the frame rate from 30fps to 36fps in Guild Wars 2 certainly ain't gonna tempt me open up my wallet to upgrade. Hating as their approach as I may, it still doesn't change the fact they are offering the best gaming performance available, and certainly more bang for bucks than AMD's offering because the i5's performance for example doesn't suffer until the games using less than 4 cores (whereas FX8's performance would suffer right away as soon as it uses less than 8 cores). However, this has nothing to do with the fact on the separate case that the FX6300 IS offer better bang for bucks than the "cannot be overlocked i3".

It's not a stupid focus, they're just going in a different direction. They know they have to tbh. They'll be concentrating on lowering power use and die size for tablets, heck, even phones at the rate they're going. AMD have won the console war with its competitors and has been putting serious amounts of cash into Gaming Evolved. This is now going to pay off for them, as their hardware is about to see a seven year reign of support.

I get what you're saying about GW2 but I don't play it. Therefore it's just a random game to me and not a good reason to avoid buying a CPU that is cheaper and offers more bang for the buck as you put it than any other CPU in existence.

Take a look at this. This isn't just fanboy white noise, this is what helped make me decide on what CPU to upgrade to back in May, after spending six years on Intel.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+FX-8320+Eight-Core

Then take a look at where it stands from a financial standpoint.



And some recent games,most of which don't support 8 cores.











I could go on and on with that. In Crysis 3 and Far Cry 3 the 8 cores are out ahead by quite a margin. Knowing that and having a set amount of money what would you have chosen?

It's a no brainer now dude.Nothing Intel make all the way up to the 4770k is worth touching.

We can keep crying about Windows issue, game engines not using 8 threads/cores all day long, but that's not gonna change anything. FX8 is by no mean a poor CPU if we were to look purely at it as a piece hardware, the problem with is it is just unfortunate that it is a poor match with vast majority game titles due to almost none of them ain't written to support and use up to 8 thread/cores...and in games that does, it still only mean they are closer to competing with the i5. FX-8 is more likely to be "performance as it should" for future games with the release of new consoles, but it still won't do much for current games and older games.

Most games I (and most people) play still uses 4 cores or less, so it's just simply the case picking the hardware that's best suited for the job.

My research begs to differ with the poor match etc. Windows 8 has massively improved the FX range simply by working properly and as it should.

As I hinted at above I have a massive amount of games. And I mean, massive amount. I've been on AMD since May (mostly after reading the article from Eurogamer) and I can tell you first hand I've had none of the issues you or Martini speak of. And that includes a playthrough of Metro Last Light maxed with 8xMSAA.
 
This world?


That video says FX6100 vs 3770k.

Look, we get it, you like AMD. But at best you're cherry-picking results to suit your agenda and at worst you're downright misleading people who come here actually looking for advice.

There is a time and a place for AMD CPUs. Pretending they're top-end and that you're getting 'the same' performance is not it.
 
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That video says FX6100 vs 3770k.

Look, we get it, you like AMD. But at best you're cherry-picking results to suit your agenda and at worst you're downright misleading people who come here actually looking for advice.

There is a time and a place for AMD CPUs. Pretending they're top-end and that you're getting 'the same' performance is not it.

No you don't get the same performance. You get more when they are supported properly. I'm not cherry picking results either, given that I've posted a wealth of different games. Cherry picking is picking one game something is good at and then relying on that.

You can think of the performance whatever you like. The facts and figures don't lie. IE - right up until the X770k on Intel there isn't really much of anything worth buying as they represent poor value for money. That is of course if you are open minded and do your research properly.

But I get it, you like Intel. Otherwise you wouldn't have come into a thread about an AMD processor and started posting. That's fine if you have the money to throw at a brand name.
 
It'd change in multiplayer.

It would change equally. The multi player does not use a different engine or different game shell. So any effect it has would be the same.

Now granted on Windows 7 you will see problems running hefty tasks. That's because the OS will park the cores no matter what you are doing and dump the cache mid operation.

Look. Before this turns into a filibuster. You've seen the 3DMark 13 physics scores yourself. The 8320/50 are pretty much dead level with the 4670k. You pays your money, you makes your choice. If you have the extra to spend on Intel? fair play to you. If you don't like AMD, or worry that the cores are not being supported properly? no one is holding a gun to your head. But at least accept reality.
 
But at least accept reality.
Reality is that you lost all credibility when you start quoting youtube and single-player GPU limited bench results for representing CPU performance :rolleyes:

Even the BF4 results you quoted go against your claim of the FX8 being equal to the Intel's i5 core for core.
 
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Andy. You have joined the paint stain that is now AMD 'fanboy' in their eyes. This happened to me a few weeks now as I was defending some of the blatantley biased elephant in the room repostes which made no sense. Everyone seems to neglect price when people ask for a budget and always go intel.

Martini and a couple of others at least know what they are talking about. Marine seems to be the minority that can accept certain stances and doesnt come back with knee-jerk responses, he actually debates.

What amazes me is some of these intelligent people are plucking the prime conkers to suit their argument. Take a look at martinis recent quote:

It'd change in multiplayer

I mean if you are bright you would know that online MMO's and FPS, the most important factor to weigh in is low latency internet connection. Having an i7 engineering sample beast is pointless if you are on wifi over a throttled connection - it wont matter what your hardware was.

There is many additional factors but not worth point scoring on here now as it gets grating. I do see however it's the same faces counteracting posts with system specs containing the brand they are preaching.

I think this quote is pretty fair and reflects a better debate to be had:

It's a no brainer now dude.Nothing Intel make all the way up to the 4770k is worth touching.

I think this could be worded better but in a nutshell is accurate in my judgment. Remember this pertains to budget, value - no other reason for me personally.
 
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You have posted graphs to suggest that in gameplay at 1080p, on high/ultra/'benchmark' settings, the difference between an A8-5600k and a 3770k is roughly 7fps, in the worst-case scenario. You claim to not cherry-pick results, yet keep harping on about 3DMark 13 physics score like it's representative of every game you'll ever play.

If you don't see how that is misleading then I don't know what to tell you.

I'm lucky, I understand enough to be able understand computer components and make an informed decision myself. I feel sorry for somebody who's saved up a considerable chunk of money and looked to a supposedly reputable source for advice, only to be fooled into thinking they're buying something that's better than it actually is. It's unfair to waste other peoples' money by blindly sending (or in worse cases, tricking) them to your 'company of choice' so you can earn invisible points in a game nobody cares about, much less the company itself.

I don't like Intel, I like whichever company offers me the performance I want at the price that I can afford. Likewise I don't hate AMD either, I just dislike people pretending the processors are something they're not.

I mean if you are bright you would know that online MMO's and FPS, the most important factor to weigh in is low latency internet connection. Having an i7 engineering sample beast is pointless if you are on wifi over a throttled connection - it wont matter what your hardware was.

Generally speaking, your internet connection will not affect FPS in an MMO. Granted the gameplay experience would be terrible with a high-latency connection, but you could still experience all the laggy glory at high FPS with high-end gear.
 
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You have posted graphs to suggest that in gameplay at 1080p, on high/ultra/'benchmark' settings, the difference between an A8-5600k and a 3770k is roughly 7fps, in the worst-case scenario. You claim to not cherry-pick results, yet keep harping on about 3DMark 13 physics score like it's representative of every game you'll ever play.

If you don't see how that is misleading then I don't know what to tell you.

And you've posted nothing. I'm not harping on about anything. Any one can see that when used properly the 8320/50 are right next to and ahead of the 4670k. Go and take a look at the Cinebench thread, you'll find the results there are pretty much identical to the Firestrike Physics tests. If you don't want to accept the benchmarks and results? that's your lookout.

I'm lucky, I understand enough to be able understand computer components and make an informed decision myself. I feel sorry for somebody who's saved up a considerable chunk of money and looked to a supposedly reputable source for advice, only to be fooled into thinking they're buying something that's better than it actually is. It's unfair to waste other peoples' money by blindly sending (or in worse cases, tricking) them to your 'company of choice' so you can earn invisible points in a game nobody cares about, much less the company itself.

Now you're trying to berate me into submission. You're also trying to convince me that something is better than it isn't. Thankfully I do have a good set of eyes and I spent weeks poking around the internet looking for benchmarks and comparisons. I also put the 8320 head to head with my existing rig before I decided on what to keep.



That's 3Dmark's Firestrike on the Xeon I had. I was considering buying a 3570k but after doing my research I realised that the 8320 was £60 cheaper, and just out ahead when supported properly. I have no concerns about future support, given the consoles will use a very similar CPU. One look at the required hardware specs for Watchdog and COD : Ghosts merely confirmed what I already knew, which again I learned from doing my research. See here.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-future-proofing-your-pc-for-next-gen

We approached a number of developers on and off the record - each of whom has helped to ship multi-million-selling, triple-A titles - asking them whether an Intel or AMD processor offers the best way to future-proof a games PC built in the here and now. Bearing in mind the historical dominance Intel has enjoyed, the results are intriguing - all of them opted for the FX-8350 over the current default enthusiast's choice, the Core i5 3570K.

TBH? and I'm not being rude here ; I would take the word of the devs over what people like you say any day

You don't set the standard for game coding, they do. And if they're saying "Buy an AMD over an Intel" then you'll need to forgive me for adding two and two and coming up with four.

I don't like Intel, I like whichever company offers me the performance I want at the price that I can afford. Likewise I don't hate AMD either, I just dislike people pretending the processors are something they're not.

Then if that's the case I suggest you get with the times and do your research because right now AMD are kicking Intel's ass for the value that you seem to care about. If that's true then take a look around you and you'll be really pleasantly surprised at just how much performance AMD give you for £80 and £113 respectively.

Stop living in the past. It's time to embrace the future.
 
Stop living in the past. It's time to embrace the future.
That's why if anyone want an affordable 8 cores CPU should wait for whatever AMD's coming up with next and hope for the best, rather than getting a Piledriver based 8 cores CPU which is only marginally improved from the Bulldozer (10% ish give or take) and with IPC around only the same level as the 4-5 years old Phenom II/Core2.

Your refusal to accept the fact that in majority of the games (which use 4 cores or less) which a FX8 would perform almost no better than a FX4 leaves no room for discussion, since your mind is already made up.

Games supporting 8 cores would merely mean FX8 performance would finally be hitting 100% instead of 50% or less for most games, it wouldn't suddenly increase the performance to 120-150% in performance.
 
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That's why if anyone want an affordable 8 cores CPU should wait for whatever AMD's coming up with next and hope for the best, rather than getting a Piledriver based 8 cores CPU which is only marginally improvement from the Bulldozer and with IPC around only the same level as the 4-5 years old Phenom II/Core2.

Your refusal to accept the fact that in majority of the games (which use 4 cores or less) which a FX8 would perform almost no better than a FX4 leaves no room for discussion, since your mind is already made up.

Games supporting 8 cores would merely mean FX8 performance would finally be hitting 100% instead of 50% or less for most games, it wouldn't suddenly increase the performance to 120-150% in performance.

Have you looked at performance from a 8320 when it's being fully utilised? Have you compared it?

I have. Look man, you're a decent and sensible guy but I just think you have it wrong and are underestimating the 8320 and 50 PD chips by a margin. That's all.

I've got one in my mitts and I've tested it against an Intel quad core chip that cost £140 and was locked (pretty much like any CPU they have made on Sandy, Ivy or Haswell). In something pretty much GPU bound like Hitman Absolution? yeah, I got around abouts the same FPS levels (IE 32 min 8xMSAA game maxed 1080p). However in titles that were CPU bound and support the CPU properly? there was no contest. It hands down pulled ahead of the 3570k in gaming and was either level or ahead with the 3770k (Far Cry 3 the gap is quite substantial).

My point is that the 8320 has more than enough grunt for older, quad core only supporting games. The fact is that the last four big hitting titles have *all* supported 8 cores. They would, AMD paid for it with Gaming Evolved.

You should know by now that computing does not stand still and you can't live in the past. It's the future that counts.

SR will be better than PD. There's no questioning that. However, there's also no questioning what the PD chips can do *now*. If you want to see it then take a look at the Firestrike or Cinebench results dude.

Let me give you a rough example of the performance gains you get from AMD on Crysis 3. Yes, I''m aware that it's only one game. However, the next two AAA titles are *both* asking for 8 core CPUs with 6gb ram and X64 OS.



Here are the results the 8320 spat out.

Run one All very high - 2XMSAA

Min = 51 FPS
AVG = 81.267 FPS
MAX = 137 FPS

Run two All very high - 4XMSAA

Min = 39 FPS
AVG = 51.244 FPS
MAX = 72 FPS

Now I kinda had a feeling that people would say "Well you can't prove it". So, I made a video of the benchmark. Same run, same results. Here it is being recorded.


That's on my rig, in my house, on my TV. It's being played on a 8320 @ 4.2ghz as I was limited with my old board. There's one tiny stutter, and that's when FRAPS stops recording the FPS right at the end.
 
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