Madeleine McCann's parents

Indie · 16 Oct 2013 at 10:03

deaglecat said:
I for one think the parents are victims...sure they made a mistake but the price they paid was disproportionate to their (lack of) oversight. Didn't the police bug their calls after the kidnapping ? it would have been pretty likely that their story would have unravelled by now... which it has not.

They are hardly victims when they are in direct fault for the abduction/murder/whatever of their daughter. Live with the consequences.

Jambo said:
This is very hypocritical from someone who leaves a 6 year old on their own.

There's a huge difference between doing it once, for a very short period of time, in a locked house of his own, in his own country. Then doing this constantly, for long periods of time, sedating your children, in an unlocked property in a different country.

While I agree he could have taken his daughter with him, These situations are totally different.

Dimple said:
Back off Judge Dredd he said he did it once, it scared him and he didn't do it again.

Pretty much!

soundood said:
'by facilitating an incident we increase its likelihood of happening'

this is the rule most parents live by, including myself, even if they don't realise it,

by leaving a small child in a room alone with an open fire, we increase the chances of them falling in it,

parents make this kind of decision a hundred times a day, and I for one, don't 'facilitate' anything, it is my responsibility to my children not to.

the McCanns failed here, not once, but many times,

and as for, back in the day it was the norm to leave the kids in their room etc, its garbage, I spent xmas/new year 1999/2000 in Cyprus, and not once did I leave my 3 year old daughter for 30 seconds, never mind 30 mins.

I believe Gerry McCann did it, his mate Matthew Oldfield helped him cover it up, and Kate was told later, deciding to back her man and keep her mouth shut.

did he do it intentionally? no I don't think so, I think he sedated her and gave her too much, or she had an unusual reaction and died.

'the views expressed here, are my own and are based on the evidence I have seen to date, it remains to be seen in a Court of Law who is guilty of this crime'

That's actually very similar to my mothers theory that she blabbered on at me about yesterday, apparently she's buried in a nearby church too, in the pipes or something. *shrugs* - While it does sound quite wild, also sounds quite feasible

EDIT: Not sure if anybody has actually been to Luz recently, but its a ghost town compared to what it used to be like.
My family and I were there not so long after it all happened and it was still rammed. Went back a year or so ago and its just... well... grim.

Sliver · 16 Oct 2013 at 10:07

soundood said:
its all in this thread, nothing new or in secret, and can also be found on the interwebs

Yeah I feared you might say that. I think your idea of 'evidence' is not shared by the law courts in the UK.

feedtheram · 16 Oct 2013 at 10:11

Third Opinion said:
So we are left with the Irish families sighting, the Smith's. The E-fit comes from them but this is were it gets really weird. The Smith's were 60-80% sure when they gave their statement all those years ago that the man carrying the child was no other than Gerry McCann.

At which time Gerry was sitting at the Tapas bar with the other families. One of the things that really puts me off the parents being involved theory is that in most cases it requires the 'Tapas 7' to be in on the lie and back them up. I just cannot see how 7 people would agree to concealing the death of a child in such a short space of time.

Indie · 16 Oct 2013 at 10:13

feedtheram said:
At which time Gerry was sitting at the Tapas bar with the other families. One of the things that really puts me off the parents being involved theory is that in most cases it requires the 'Tapas 7' to be in on the lie and back them up. I just cannot see how 7 people would agree to concealing the death of a child in such a short space of time.

Wasn't he meant to be regularly toddling off to check on her though?

feedtheram · 16 Oct 2013 at 10:23

iamtheoneneo said:
How is it? They were well known to sedate their kids, the tapas 9 group were very close to each other - it doesnt take much to think OD > Protection of careers > over fessing up going to court , definitely losing your practice license and potential jail.

Is that true about the sedation? I've heard it as a theory but never seen any evidence.

Also i can almost see how Gerry might panic and think he should dispose of the body. But it's a bit of a leap of faith to think he could talk 8 others into going along with it. Certainly given how much they have done to keep it in the media spotlight over the years.

Father Ted · 16 Oct 2013 at 10:27

The simple fact of the case is that if the McCann's had been doing there job as parents. If they actually valued their kids' safety more than their social life then Madeleine would still be alive and with them today. After that anything else is speculation.

MooMoo444 · 16 Oct 2013 at 10:28

Dimple said:
Back off Judge Dredd he said he did it once, it scared him and he didn't do it again.

No good parent would do it in the first place. Chill out guy.

feedtheram · 16 Oct 2013 at 10:32

Indie said:
Wasn't he meant to be regularly toddling off to check on her though?

He went once in the time between them putting her to bed and her going missing. At the time of the Irish family sighting i believe the Tapas 7 have vouched for him being at the bar with them. This is why the police never really investigated it any further. They could have course be covering for him.

Indie · 16 Oct 2013 at 10:41

feedtheram said:
He went once in the time between them putting her to bed and her going missing. At the time of the Irish family sighting i believe the Tapas 7 have vouched for him being at the bar with them. This is why the police never really investigated it any further. They could have course be covering for him.

Ahh I see! indeed they could!

I'd just like the truth to come out, stuff like this winds me up! lol

MooMoo444 · 16 Oct 2013 at 10:42

Father Ted said:
The simple fact of the case is that if the McCann's had been doing there job as parents. If they actually valued their kids' safety more than their social life then Madeleine would still be alive and with them today. After that anything else is speculation.

This is false, because they killed her themselves.

RaMDOM · 16 Oct 2013 at 10:48

Surely, if one committed a crime such as this and the case is closed, as it was. You would surely not continue to keep it alive at the risk of being discovered as the perpetrator would you?

If you were such a person that could live with themselves upon committing what is being suggested, would you not just play along and when the police state that their investigations found nothing, act like 'gee whizz that is a shame, oh well, /cry /cry', however inside be like 'phew, got away with that one!'. And then look to move on with your life?

I think it is very strange that they would continue to pursue the disappearance of their daughter, and as such continue to expose themselves to the risk of being caught, if indeed they were involved.

I personally do not think that they had any involvement in their daughters abduction. Though I do believe that they were negligent in leaving their very young children alone in the apartment. I would not leave any child below teenage years (never mind 3) alone as such; but that is just me.

MooMoo444 · 16 Oct 2013 at 10:55

RaMDOM said:
Surely, if one committed a crime such as this and the case is closed, as it was. You would surely not continue to keep it alive at the risk of being discovered as the perpetrator would you?

Quite the opposite I believe, if they keep acting concerned over her disappearance, it helps cloud the real culprit.

If they're quick to brush her under the carpet, figuratively and literally, then it looks odd and people would be intrigued as to why.

RaMDOM · 16 Oct 2013 at 11:00

MooMoo444 said:
Quite the opposite I believe, if they keep acting concerned over her disappearance, it helps cloud the real culprit.

If they're quick to brush her under the carpet, figuratively and literally, then it looks odd and people would be intrigued as to why.

Completely disagree. The stress of living like that would be unbearable and someone would confess. I do not believe it to be in the capacity of a parent to do that; they do have other children. If they wanted to move on people would understand; would you want a family member to continue to torture themselves with what seems like a futile quest? No you would encourage them to move on. The public would also think this.

All these people saying they did it; do you have children?

cainer · 16 Oct 2013 at 11:03

i went to Portugal (albufeira) with a mate in 2004, on our 2nd to last night we crashed out with the door open slightly... woke up with everything gone except the clothes we wore the night before,
when we got to the police station to report it there was already another guy there complaining of exactly the same crime, 2 minutes later another person turned up and the same had happened to him.
afterwards we talked to people we'd met that work out there and they were full of storys about people getting robbed while they slept at night.
i left Portugal with the thought that the place is crawling with people trying to steal from appartments at night
so in my view its highly likely someone got in and 'stole' her

Indie · 16 Oct 2013 at 11:24

cainer said:
i went to Portugal (albufeira) with a mate in 2004, on our 2nd to last night we crashed out with the door open slightly... woke up with everything gone except the clothes we wore the night before,
when we got to the police station to report it there was already another guy there complaining of exactly the same crime, 2 minutes later another person turned up and the same had happened to him.
afterwards we talked to people we'd met that work out there and they were full of storys about people getting robbed while they slept at night.
i left Portugal with the thought that the place is crawling with people trying to steal from appartments at night
so in my view its highly likely someone got in and 'stole' her

Isn't Albufeira quite a built up area/city? as opposed to Luz being a very small beach town. closest city IIRC is Lagos, which is generally quite small anyway. Saying that though, that doesn't confirm such things wouldn't happen in a quieter town

feedtheram · 16 Oct 2013 at 11:35

Indie said:
Isn't Albufeira quite a built up area/city? as opposed to Luz being a very small beach town. closest city IIRC is Lagos, which is generally quite small anyway. Saying that though, that doesn't confirm such things wouldn't happen in a quieter town

The recent reports state that burglaries were up 30% in the 2 months prior to the event in the area. Also the place that they were staying had one burglary and one attempted burglary in the weeks before. I assume the management of the resort didn’t want to share this information with guests but it could well have prevented the McCanns making the stupid mistake they made.

It sounds like there were some organised crime groups working the area from those stats. It could be conceivable that they worked out that they could ‘sell’ a child and make more than they ever would by pinching wallets and watches. The McCanns offered up the perfect opportunity by leaving their kids unattended.

Third Opinion · 16 Oct 2013 at 11:41

feedtheram said:
At which time Gerry was sitting at the Tapas bar with the other families. One of the things that really puts me off the parents being involved theory is that in most cases it requires the 'Tapas 7' to be in on the lie and back them up. I just cannot see how 7 people would agree to concealing the death of a child in such a short space of time.

Absolutely true, why would 7 people risk everything to cover up. I really have no idea.

One thing I did find slightly unusual was in the new reconstruction Payne and Oldfields were not mentioned. Unusual as they have been quite prominent speakers in the past however they weren't involved in the Benny Hill style coming and going to check on the children. They had monitors and care plans.

I think a few fibs were told by the one who saw the man carrying the child. She changed her description of him more than once. She positively ID Robert Murat then later on she changed it to the one dubbed monster man.

BuffetSlayer · 16 Oct 2013 at 12:01

Sliver said:
The burden of proof is on the tin foil hat brigade, who I'm pleased to find are a minority, but insist that her parents are guilty.

They are guilty. Of negligence.

To try and say they are completely innocent in the death/kidnap/disappearance (delete as applicable) of their daughter is ridiculous.

They left three very young children on their own, at night, in an unfamiliar environment with a body of water nearby and a shed load of strangers from all over the world in the local vicinity, not to mention the chance of criminals perpetrating burglary/muggings. All so they could go off in the evenings without the 'inconvenience' of their own children. Yet people think the parents are the innocent victims? Seriously? As someone else has mentioned, if this had been Wayne and Waynetta from a council estate - they would have been torn apart by the media and authorities alike. I think it is no accident that the spotlight has been taken off the parents negligence because they have the money and influence to spin the media machine in their favour.

In my opinion, it was the McCann's negligence that facilitated whatever happened to their daughter, and whether they were actually physically involved with her death/abduction/disappearance or not does not extinguish their own guilt based on the involvement we know they had from the facts thus far available.

Are they guilty of her kidnap or murder? Maybe not. But they are guilty and a person does not need a tin foil hat to see that blatant truth.

Sliver · 16 Oct 2013 at 12:11

BuffetSlayer said:
Are they guilty of her kidnap or murder? Maybe not. But they are guilty and a person does not need a tin foil hat to see that blatant truth.

Meh. I disagree. Play the blame game all you want. They ARE victims even if through their own bad parenting on that night. I can think of nothing worse than losing a child, except maybe losing a child and knowing that it was partly your negligence too. I pity them. I know that they would do anything to turn back the clock but they can't. The last thing they need are armchair detectives throwing muck at them.

My 2 cents. Spend it wisely.

mmj_uk · 16 Oct 2013 at 12:22

I agree with BuffetSlayer.

If someone got knocked down walking in the middle of a motorway would you blame the motorist or the victim?