On Benefits & Proud

pitchfork said:
I don't think anyone is perpetuating the idea that it's a lie, more that these people are extreme cases.

Tabloids actively hunt things for people to be outraged by...
Click to expand...

Don't be silly, get the pitchforks and whale blubber torches out! ARRGGG! Tonight we dine on benefit scroungers! :mad::mad::mad:

The fact is, there will always be system cheats while the system can be cheated. These people make a tiny percentage of the general population of benefit claimants, who more often than not are genuine and just hard up for whatever reason.

If you want something to be angry about, look into Government squandering of tax money... It's something that every government do, just some are better at obfuscation.
 
OldCoals said:
So what happens to the eleven kids if the benefits are slashed?
Click to expand...

Well, that would be why you wouldn't institute a big bang sudden change. In making substanstial changes to the benefits system, I would freeze and maintain the current entitlements while blocking any eligibility for additional benefits under the old system, and pushing any new claims through the new.

Some tweaking might be needed to ensure it wasn't a massive trapping effect, but I certainly don't advocate pulling the rug out from under people who have been failed and forced into dependency by the current system. That doesn't mean we have to continue dragging new people into the same situation though.
 
d_brennen said:
Don't be silly, get the pitchforks and whale blubber torches out! ARRGGG! Tonight we dine on benefit scroungers! :mad::mad::mad:

The fact is, there will always be system cheats while the system can be cheated. These people make a tiny percentage of the general population of benefit claimants, who more often than not are genuine and just hard up for whatever reason.

If you want something to be angry about, look into Government squandering of tax money... It's something that every government do, just some are better at obfuscation.
Click to expand...

Many people don't defraud the system, they just claim what they are entitled too.. The problem is they are entitled to too much.
 
Dolph said:
Don't blame the people, blame the system that permits and encourages such behaviour.

Change the system so someone on benefits will always be worse off than someone working and stop compensating people for poor choices.
Click to expand...

This. My brother in law is pretty much worse off if he takes a minimum wage job, especially in the short term. Change the system so that when you get a job you don't lose all your benefits immediately and always are better off and we might have people who see work as worthwhile.
 
Dolph said:
Don't blame the people, blame the system that permits and encourages such behaviour.

Change the system so someone on benefits will always be worse off than someone working and stop compensating people for poor choices.
Click to expand...

I agree, abolish the minimum wage and introduce a compulsory living wage in the UK.

I think this is what Ed Milliband was talking about when he talks about the assault on living standards. There's a cost associated with working - clothing, transport, petrol, food maybe. The cost of all these things have risen dramatically over the last few years and it's really starting to bite - it's no wonder that so many people are having to resort to food banks despite the Tory sneers.
 
I know at least 5/6 people like this?

I know one women who is trying to claim ESA because she believes she shouldn't be expected to work and should be given money instead. She claims she can't work due to her knee being bad even after the doctors, countless x-rays and an MRI scan have all shown there is nothing wrong with her yet she still gets paid while she appeals the decision.
 
OldCoals said:
Wouldn't that just become the minimum wage? :confused:
Click to expand...

I thought that was what the minimum wage was too :p

If you don't obsess with i7 CPUs, 50" TVs and bleeding edge mobile phones, living doesn't cost that much. If you want more, get better at what you do.

The problem is many people don't see the dividing line between need and want, which comes back to enforcing stricter rules on benefit receivers. Can anyone guess what happens when you make rules more robust and closely enforced?
 
scorza said:
it's no wonder that so many people are having to resort to food banks despite the Tory sneers.
Click to expand...

My Mum (votes labour) works with a lot of food banks, and from talking to the people who run them she said that the vast majority of the people who use them don't need them, but are just taking advantage of the free food (who can blame them). The growth in food banks started under Labour btw.
 
Dolph said:
Well, that would be why you wouldn't institute a big bang sudden change. In making substanstial changes to the benefits system, I would freeze and maintain the current entitlements while blocking any eligibility for additional benefits under the old system, and pushing any new claims through the new.

Some tweaking might be needed to ensure it wasn't a massive trapping effect, but I certainly don't advocate pulling the rug out from under people who have been failed and forced into dependency by the current system. That doesn't mean we have to continue dragging new people into the same situation though.
Click to expand...

I agree with this, there are a vast number of people trapped in the system with 11 plus kids.

Even if they wanted to work they have got into such a situation that they would NEVER be able to on minimum wage afford to care for there kids.

So aye freeze, but for new claims they should not be able to get to such a stage where it becomes trapping so the new system needs to make sure people are not better off on benefits.

Unfortunately as above the people trapped in the system will only be able to be helped so much now.

What can you honestly do for that woman even if she wanted to work? she has to care for them till there old enough to care for them selves and she couldnt even do that on a £30,000 job and who would employ her straight off benefits for that kind of money straight way?


System is a mess.
 
scorza said:
I agree, abolish the minimum wage and introduce a compulsory living wage in the UK.

I think this is what Ed Milliband was talking about when he talks about the assault on living standards. There's a cost associated with working - clothing, transport, petrol, food maybe. The cost of all these things have risen dramatically over the last few years and it's really starting to bite - it's no wonder that so many people are having to resort to food banks despite the Tory sneers.
Click to expand...

How are you going to deal with the increased number of unemployed and the higher inflation that this policy will cause, or is this one of the lefty policies where economic reality is ignored again?

The cost of all those things was also rising significantly under the previous administration. Also, with regards to food banks, perhaps the solution is managed benefits rsther than increased benefits, or does your command approach only apply to the successful?
 
Last edited:
scorza said:
They go into care? Which costs the taxpayer even more and has a terrible track record of bringing up kids.
Click to expand...


Or they are adopted.

Think in the long term. Being brought up in a family like that is likely to be creating another generation of hugly expensive lifestyle claimants, it could even be argued to be an "Abusive environment". Short term costs vs longer term gains perhaps?

Also, one doesn't get 11 children all at once, it takes time, newborns (which are much easier to adopt) can be "removed from harm" at birth once the 2/3 children benefit limit (say) has been exceeded. ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom