On Benefits & Proud

[Jestahr]

The point of this show is to **** off people, create controversy and in turn increase views and traffic to Channel 5.

You have taken the bait, hook line and sinker.

Modern media is about playing you like a puppet, by posting this thread they have achieved their goal.

 

[Orionaut]

I would lay part of the blame at the feet of employers these days as well.

The amount of hoops and red tape you have to go through for a basic low wage job is laughable.

Just look at tescos ? you have to pratically go on the krypton factor to stack shelves or unload lorries it's just cringe worthy.

Employers expect too much these days almost getting to the point they expect a professional C.V and university education to be a car washer.

We need to bring back the days of just turning up and someone making a decision based upon that persons eagerness attitude and common sense not mass filtering out because the C.V wasn't in a format you like or they didn't have a masters degree to do a manual job

I applied for a warehouse job recently I have 10 years experience for national companies the job was within walking distance under a mile from where I live.

Didn't even get a reply and I know why, it's because my c.v or covering letter which was a bog standard template didn't fit in with their TOO HIGH expectations.

Part of the problem here is that if you just employed people based on whether or not you liked the "Cut of their Jib" then one would find oneself open to complaints from the people you rejected that they were rejected because they were Old/Young/Male/Female/Black/white/etc/etc/etc

All the paper nonsense is as much about ass covering as it is about genuine selection!

 

[Dolph]

It's a start. I don't understand why any nation sends money to another. Why not British produced goods? I can't see how this would be bad for anyone except corrupt officials abroad who can't pocket a sack of spuds or farm tractor etc

It was more to highlight the scale. The calls to cancel all international aid to help our budget issues are similar to the calls to cancel replacing trident (costs of between 20 and 80 bn over 20 to 30 yeara depending on source) to solve our budget crisis, when the reality is these things barely register in the circa 700bn annual spend of the UK government. Social security spending (including pensions) amounts to about a third of the total, with the nhs as the next biggest thing for around a sixth of the total.

 

[mmj_uk]

Wages should be based on qualifications, no qualifications = minimum wage and scale upwards... but it doesn't solve the basic problem that there aren't actually enough jobs to go around, it would just put qualified people on the dole rather than in minimum wage jobs where they are now (at the expense of the unskilled).

 

[d_brennen]

It was more to highlight the scale. The calls to cancel all international aid to help our budget issues are similar to the calls to cancel replacing trident (costs of between 20 and 80 bn over 20 to 30 yeara depending on source) to solve our budget crisis, when the reality is these things barely register in the circa 700bn annual spend of the UK government. Social security spending (including pensions) amounts to about a third of the total, with the nhs as the next biggest thing for around a sixth of the total.

I agree completely. Still can't fathom why not spend the money internally to benefit foreign nations. Seems like ******* money into the wind sending it to nations who have a space program.

 

[RedvGreen]

Wages should be based on qualifications, no qualifications = minimum wage and scale upwards... but it doesn't solve the basic problem that there aren't actually enough jobs to go around, it would just put qualified people on the dole rather than in minimum wage jobs where they are now (at the expense of the unskilled).

Wages already are sorted by Quals and Experience.

However that will not stop inequality - bog-standard Masters degree in Marketing netted a guy £8k more than a distinction Masters degree in Cyber Forensics, within the same organisation, due to the ancient belief that anything with 'Cyber' or 'Computing' in the title is a subservient IT Support role reserved for hippies. Whilst 'Marketing' is for suave and sophisticated go-getters who do not talk any BS. How wrong could they be...

It was more to highlight the scale. The calls to cancel all international aid to help our budget issues are similar to the calls to cancel replacing trident (costs of between 20 and 80 bn over 20 to 30 yeara depending on source) to solve our budget crisis, when the reality is these things barely register in the circa 700bn annual spend of the UK government. Social security spending (including pensions) amounts to about a third of the total, with the nhs as the next biggest thing for around a sixth of the total.

I'm sure a supposedly independent review pointed out that the vast majority of debt on the Government could be repaid in just 1 year by unifying all contracts and suppliers used by the Civil Service, Government and Public Sector to use the same firm.

Obviously this would potentially put many companies out of business, but the saving was in the billions GBP.

 

[Dolph]

Wages already are sorted by Quals and Experience.

However that will not stop inequality - bog-standard Masters degree in Marketing netted a guy £8k more than a distinction Masters degree in Cyber Forensics, within the same organisation, due to the ancient belief that anything with 'Cyber' or 'Computing' in the title is a subservient IT Support role reserved for hippies. Whilst 'Marketing' is for suave and sophisticated go-getters who do not talk any BS. How wrong could they be...




I'm sure a supposedly independent review pointed out that the vast majority of debt on the Government could be repaid in just 1 year by unifying all contracts and suppliers used by the Civil Service, Government and Public Sector to use the same firm.

Obviously this would potentially put many companies out of business, but the saving was in the billions GBP.

I think you mean deficit, not debt. The deficit is circa 120bn, and represents the amount the debt grows by each year. The debt is over 1tn.

 

[Telecaster]

Change the system so someone on benefits will always be worse off than someone working and stop compensating people for poor choices.

But to do that would require the private sector fairly taking up it's share of the burden. Same goes for the BTL scumbags who rake in the housing benefit, nice plan, sell off all the social housing to your mates on the cheap and then let them scrounge off the state for the rents.

As the news today shows, being in work is no longer a guarantee of being out of poverty, we subsidise all the companies who get away without paying a living wage with tax credits, correct this and then maybe then we'll get a fair benefits system for all.

But oh wait, this is all to left wing socialist for your average Sun/Daily Mail reader, we can't be having that.

Unfortunately the Tories think the best thing for the country is another housing bubble where people are being encouraged to pay over the odds for bottom of the rung property, rather than building more social and affordable housing and just let the market it correct itself, houses are for living in not for investment.

 

[Dolph]

But to do that would require the private sector fairly taking up it's share of the burden. Same goes for the BTL scumbags who rake in the housing benefit, nice plan, sell off all the social housing to your mates on the cheap and then let them scrounge off the state for the rents.

As the news today shows, being in work is no longer a guarantee of being out of poverty, we subsidise all the companies who get away without paying a living wage with tax credits, correct this and then maybe then we'll get a fair benefits system for all.

But oh wait, this is all to left wing socialist for your average Sun/Daily Mail reader, we can't be having that.

Unfortunately the Tories think the best thing for the country is another housing bubble where people are being encouraged to pay over the odds for bottom of the rung property, rather than building more social and affordable housing and just let the market it correct itself, houses are for living in not for investment.

I don't support right to buy, but I also don't support the current guaranteed tenancy in social housing either. If we are basing something on need, then it should only be available while the need is present.

You do know I support a universal minimum income policy, don't you?

Oh, and not having as much as others != poverty, even though the poverty guarantee industry likes to claim it does.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

How far do you think 9bn goes when it comes to the tax free threshold?

Pwc estimate that each £100 increase costs 0.5bn in lost reveue. So completely abolishing all international aid will only give scope to raise the threshold by around £1800.

http://m.accountancyage.com/aa/news/2141816/raising-tax-threshold-cost-gbp11bn

£1800 is a bloody good start, as we're nearing the £10k mark anyway. The difference will hopefully come from increased tax revenues when we get more people into work.

Work generates work, so for every five people you get into work, you'll gain one more employed person from their expenditures. (I don't remember the exact ratio, but it's something like that).

 

[Hatter The Mad]

CITIZENS' WAGE YO

end of problems

 

[Angilion]

If I actually believed all the "millions of people are living in luxury on benefits!" propaganda, I'd do it myself. If the standard of living was the same, I'd much rather be on benefits than working - it's more dignified and better for your health.

But I don't believe it, because it's just propaganda created to cause anger and provide a target group for that anger. Most of the money paid out in benefits goes to private businesses anyway.

 

[Dolph]

If I actually believed all the "millions of people are living in luxury on benefits!" propaganda, I'd do it myself. If the standard of living was the same, I'd much rather be on benefits than working - it's more dignified and better for your health.

But I don't believe it, because it's just propaganda created to cause anger and provide a target group for that anger. Most of the money paid out in benefits goes to private businesses anyway.

If you include tax credits, much of that anger is justified. A family who earns 40k a year is not that much better off than a family who earns 20k per year, as the latter can claim an extra 9k untaxable income and the former cannot (where it ends up doesn't matter because both can have childcare costs), and that is with just one child. Add more than one into the mix and the problem gets even worse.

What people are seeing is people working less hard, doing less hours or with a lesser earning potential have the same lifestyle, and we wonder why it isn't popular.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcredits/p...-tables/work-and-child/work-pay-childcare.htm

 

[elmarko]

A nice load of tabloid TV to annoy a load of people whilst not being particularly representative of the typical benefits claimant.

This is worth a read: http://sabotagetimes.com/reportage/...employee-part-2-****less-spivs-filthy-sewers/

Thanks for saving me the effort of posting (I appreciate the irony of this post but you know what I mean )

+1.

 

[Telecaster]

What we need are proper jobs, not zero hours contracts and so called "apprenticeships" that allow them to pay less than the min wage.

I fear that the age of employment is over though, outsourcing and lean production methods mean actual physical work is always kept to a bare minimum, how do you balance that with the need to employ a nation on a living wage? Seems impossible to me.

 

[MrMoonX]

If you include tax credits, much of that anger is justified. A family who earns 40k a year is not that much better off than a family who earns 20k per year, as the latter can claim an extra 9k untaxable income and the former cannot (where it ends up doesn't matter because both can have childcare costs), and that is with just one child. Add more than one into the mix and the problem gets even worse.

What people are seeing is people working less hard, doing less hours or with a lesser earning potential have the same lifestyle, and we wonder why it isn't popular.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcredits/p...-tables/work-and-child/work-pay-childcare.htm

Fail! someone earning £20k doesnt not do less work or less hours than someone earning £40k you could be doing **** all for £40k in some jobs, where as a newly qualified nurse earns about £20k and works 10x more and longer

 

[Rofflay]

Hmm so much hate and ignorance in here.Everyone has blindly accepted modern employment as a be all end all.We have been programmed to despise anyone who refuses to conform.I mean how many people realise thier being ripped off? You all work for a top to bottom enonomy and employers rather than bottom to top.A business cannot function without staff so why is it top to bottom?

And yet how many of you slaving all week can afford the basics of what it is to live? Food heat and shelter? Dream on you all have to run begging to Banks so they can create 200k out of thin air for a roof over your heads.The most basic human need and none of you will own it until you are in retirement.And then you will probably have to sell it or hide or from the goverment when you need to go into a carehome.

The woman who demanded £500 a week triggers a fair point.Can a person not set his price for his labour? And if not then can everyone make free a parcel of land so they can live on it and look after themselves? I mean come on lads take a second look at the whole picture here.There is only one route open to people who fall out of the category of being a happy modern worker and that is JSA/Benefits.Im all for removing benefits but first you need to offer everyone a way of looking after themselves.Right now every bit of land and every bit of water is owned by someone and rented to someone else.Unless you participate in the Currency ponzi scheme you are trapped.


That is why they call our system capitalism as if you have no capital you are ssubservient to everyone else.Anyone who can inherit capital can in theory own everyone else by investing in water and land.Anyone born after this date would essentially be a serf to you.If you offer them benefits it keeps everyone quiet and does not trigger any revolutions.

 

[anything I don't mind]

Guy at work said its just on TV to get people worked up about it.

I kind of agree that it gives people something to moan about and a lot of normal people receive government free stuff.

I do find it interesting to hear how they justify their situation though, the stupidity of these people is the UK biggest problem after immigration. In some ways welfare encourages what natural selection tries to correct. People would not be having so many children and stupid people would be less likely to have children as well.

 

[Dolph]

Fail! someone earning £20k doesnt not do less work or less hours than someone earning £40k you could be doing **** all for £40k in some jobs, where as a newly qualified nurse earns about £20k and works 10x more and longer

and some people earn £20k for doing bugger all, this is of course completely irrelevant to the flaws of the tax credit system.

 

[C64]

I have been unemployed, and it was a struggle to get by on JSA. Since got myself a job and am now completely independent.

It is just frustrating to see people living it up at our expense, when we are the ones working full time.

Do you claim tax credits or housing benefit ? if so one could argue that it's private pockets raking it in off the back of your hard work.