Is it Ok to torture people??

An Iraqi who was a key source of intelligence for MI5 has given the first ever full insider's account of being seized by the CIA and bundled on to an illegal 'torture flight' under the programme known as extraordinary rendition.

British resident Bisher al-Rawi has told how he was betrayed by the security service despite having helped keep track of Abu Qatada, the Muslim cleric accused of being Osama bin Laden's 'ambassador in Europe'. He was abducted and stripped naked by US agents, clad in nappies, a tracksuit and shackles, blindfolded and forced to wear ear mufflers, then strapped to a stretcher on board a plane bound for a CIA 'black site' jail near Kabul in Afghanistan.

He was taken on to the jail at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba before being released last March and returned to Britain after four years' detention without charge.
. . .
He was thrown into the CIA's 'Dark Prison,' deprived of all light 24 hours a day in temperatures so low that ice formed on his food and water. He was taken to Guantanamo in March 2003 and released after being cleared of any involvement in terrorism by a tribunal.

A report by Parliament's intelligence and security committee last week disclosed that, although the Americans warned MI5 it planned to render al-Rawi in advance, in breach of international law, the British did not intervene on the grounds he did not have a UK passport. The government claimed he was the responsibility of Iraq, which he fled as a teenager when his father was tortured by Saddam Hussein's regime.

The report confirmed that al-Rawi, 39, was only held after MI5 sent the CIA a telegram, stating he was an 'Islamic extremist' who had a timer for an improvised bomb in his luggage. In reality, before al-Rawi left London, police confirmed the device was a battery charger from Argos.
Observer Link 1 & Observer Link 2
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And still there are people who favour long-term detention without trial.


Al-Rawi has now spoken out in an effort to help his friend Jamil el-Banna, who remains in Guantanamo. A Jordan-ian who also lived in London for years, where his wife and five children are British citizens, he too has been cleared by the Americans. However, he has been unable to leave Guantanamo because Jacqui Smith, the Home Secretary, says she is reviewing his right of residence on national security grounds.
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How long does it take Ms Jacqui Smith, the Home Secretary to conduct this review?

:rolleyes:
 
No, because i'm sure there's been cases where the person they do it to is totally innocent.

It would suck to be them :/
 
Moredhel said:
Never,

Never under ANY circumstances is torture justified.
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Your wife and kids have been kidnapped and one of the kidnappers rings you up and you hear their screams of pain. The kids are shouting 'Daddy Daddy' while their fingers are being chopped off.
However, the Police have one of the gang who knows where they are and he won't tell.
They either live or die but its your choice to give the go ahead for torture.

What do you do?
 
dmpoole said:
Your wife and kids have been kidnapped and one of the kidnappers rings you up and you hear their screams of pain. The kids are shouting 'Daddy Daddy' while their fingers are being chopped off.
However, the Police have one of the gang who knows where they are and he won't tell.
They either live or die but its your choice to give the go ahead for torture.

What do you do?
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I wouldn't have to think twice, i'd have them tortured.
 
I would have to say no. The information gathered through torture is questional and making someone suffer is not our way.
 
The question is flawed, you don't know whether the captured person knows anything at all, or whether he's a member of the gang...or whether he knows what they are up to.

You start torturing him, he turns out to NOT know where they are or what they are doing...you have had your family tortured AND tortured someone else's child now too...

There's far better and more reliable ways of extracting information, other than torture, anyway.
 
I think torture would be a good thing, so long as they know they're torturing the right person (e.g. some terrorist found with a bomb in a training camp, not Mr Black Guy who was arrested in London for visiting an Islamic library).
 
There always will be doubt though.

At what percentage of doubt does torture become acceptable? 5%? 1%? 0.001%?

As I said, there are other (more reliable) means of extracting information from someone. It's quite shocking just how many people think it's fine to do - just as long as it meets some bizarre moral criteria.
 
In the case of Guantanamo bay, it's "YOU ARE A TERRORIST LOL, ADMIT PLEASE OR I SHOVE THIS BROOMHANDLE UP YOUR A**"

So not in the retarded way that it would be done these days, all based on technicalities and not factually getting anything done/saving lives, it's more fearmongering by punishing a mix of innocent and guilty people to make terrorists think twice about commiting any acts of terrorism.
 
torture begins at school age

VIRII said:
I went to a boarding school for 9 years. I guarantee you that torture works.
"Where are your smokes"
"I haven't got any ........... arrrrggghhhhhhh ok ok they are in my locker".
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ha ha yeah. you remember torture less fondly, huh`?

what did they do`?

kick you in the balls?
 
Brb asking the guy chained up in my basement.


Ok he doesn't seem to 'understand' the question, might be a while longer.
 
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