Brand v Paxman

Brand is criticised for his vocabulary, his animated nature and 'flowery' way of answering questions... But anyone that disagrees with the root of what he's saying is a fool.

Consumer and celebrity society is disgusting, and he's there to express his frustration at it; with an insider's perspective. The 5%-95% argument may make him a hypocrite, but he is at least using his position to get this message out and attempt to wake people up.

I don't particularly agree or disagree with him as a character, but the message is obvious, and not enough people are even bringing it up.
 
problem there of course being that there is no proven method for economics or pretty much anything on a national/international scale.
Please elaborate.

why on earth do you think a doctor is qualified to run a health service?

Do you think managers and accountants are qualified to dispense medical advice?
Nothing more than a poor straw-man argument.

What makes you think I'd put a normal doctor in charge of large scale medical administration?.

It would be somebody with a high level of experience in medicine, coupled with a large amount of different management/organisational skills - both are required.
 
it's interesting reading all the comments from people who firmly believe in our political system and shouting brand's comments down - all he really said was that he didn't think the system worked for the majority, and because the minority running it were so rich/powerful there was no real way to upset that within the bounds of the current political system.
which, in my opinion, is an interesting point and does deserve some discussion rather than shouting him down because he's a terrible comedian/actor.
however I have voted at every election I have been eligible for, and have ruined each one because I don't think that any of the people standing represented my views, but I want to show that I am willing to vote if there is someone worth voting for - obviously there is no point in voting if you reject the political system, I look forward to the revolution...
The biggest problem I really have is that we have so many career politicians who are in significant positions of power and have no grounding in the real world they are dictating to. I agree with the folk that the people best placed to make decisions on how to run things are the ones that have some experience of running those things
 
Brand is criticised for his vocabulary, his animated nature and 'flowery' way of answering questions... But anyone that disagrees with the root of what he's saying is a fool.

Consumer and celebrity society is disgusting, and he's there to express his frustration at it; with an insider's perspective. The 5%-95% argument may make him a hypocrite, but he is at least using his position to get this message out and attempt to wake people up.

I don't particularly agree or disagree with him as a character, but the message is obvious, and not enough people are even bringing it up.

For a guy that has pandered to the celebrity lifestyle, lived it and profited off it, in my books that makes him a pretty large hypocrite!
 
Please elaborate.

there is no way you can base economic theory on scientific theory so it will just be like it is now, several proposed systems but we stick with the one we have because it's too much of a gamble to change.

How would you apply scientific model to current economic decisions?

Nothing more than a poor straw-man argument.

What makes you think I'd put a normal doctor in charge of large scale medical administration?.

It would be somebody with a high level of experience in medicine, coupled with a large amount of different management/organisational skills - both are required.

Are you sure you could find such people?

Say you have two candidates 1 very very skilled doctor, and quite a capable manager or a very very skilled personnel and financial manager with nothing more than a first aid course under his name.

which would you pick?
 
I hate the man and wouldn't watch anything with him in but I had to see if Paxman ripped him a new one... only to find he didn't have to :p He's got some valid points there but the holes in his arguments are miles wide and i could understand why Paxman had a smirk on his face throughout that I'll refute several of his major points quite simply.

1. We're not destroying the Planet but the environment regardless of whether life exists here or not the Planet is still going to be here the only things that do endanger the planet itself are extraterrestrial forces which we can't control... yet...

2. It's nice for him to say heavily tax the corporations and energy companies but who do you think the companies are going to pass the costs onto hmm... Us!

3. It's all well and good saying the current system is flawed at the end of the day it is they all are unless we were all one collective consciousness it's impossible for us all to be happy.

4. This whole thing about those claiming benefits suffering is **** at the end of the day most whom I've seen that are struggling at the moment are people in work not entitled to benefits who seem to be earning less per year than those on benefits I believe the cap is £26,000 I'm one of these people my yearly take home pay is just over £15,000 after Tax yet I still manage to survive whilst paying my bills and mortgage why can't these benefits claimants?

5. Regardless of the revolution or not we'll still end up with a system that's flawed and the majority that won't be happy about it.


If you want my two cents on where we could go to make the world a better place my views are bug business needs to go as this stifles the Big C word that everyone knows and loves Competition and Govt needs to be decentralized regional governance is a lot easier than overall as there are less voices pulling you every which way. True you'll then have inequality between regions but a lot less than there is currently.
 
I hate the man and wouldn't watch anything with him in but I had to see if Paxman ripped him a new one... only to find he didn't have to :p He's got some valid points there but the holes in his arguments are miles wide and i could understand why Paxman had a smirk on his face throughout that I'll refute several of his major points quite simply.

1. We're not destroying the Planet but the environment regardless of whether life exists here or not the Planet is still going to be here the only things that do endanger the planet itself are extraterrestrial forces which we can't control... yet...QUOTE]

Give me Russell Brand over that pile of dribble any day.
 
I agree with some points he's making, i'll reiterate what some people have said in that i think he's dresses up his arguments with words. No doubt about it. The ideas he's putting across aren't new. People know about these problems. Unfortunately there is so much smog between the problem and help, that sometimes it can really be impossible to get anywhere.

I like the point he made about the 1% and 99%, the problem with that is, it's always and will continue to be like this. Media has created the 99% to believe that each person is destined for greatness, when in reality, since the dawn of civilisation we have had a hierarchical system. Just even 100 years ago, 99% of people wouldn't even know who the 1% are. It's only now through our information inventions that we know about everything going on in the world.
 
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While disillusionment with the political process, the disproportional power of large corporations, the growing divide between the rich and poor and destruction of our planet are clearly important and noteworthy issue, is Russell Brand really the best person to deliver the message on their ills?

Some of the tritely sentimental, hypocritical and downright ignorant remarks that have accompanied this interview have been nothing short of astounding. Instead of being messiah like, all I see is a very rude, pugnacious individual who is inexplicably given a platform to pontificate in a manner that is lacking substance, research or nuance. I think he's more reminiscent of an angry teenager that has only just discovered that the world isn't perfect and is full of injustice.

The sad thing is there are many far more qualified people to deliver these messages. Unfortunately due to his bombastic, celebrity persona and silly little shoes, it is Brand that is afforded the opportunity. Frankly, he squanders it in my opinion.

Moreover, he has the audacity to lambaste the programme 'Who Do You Think You Are' that Paxman guested on. Labeling anything as 'emotional pr0n' when you've starred in nonsense like 'Forgetting Sarah Marshall' and 'Big Brother' is absolutely ridiculous.
 
there is no way you can base economic theory on scientific theory so it will just be like it is now, several proposed systems but we stick with the one we have because it's too much of a gamble to change.
Meaningless sentiment, it could be a greater gamble to change for all we know, it's also based off the faulty premise our current system is working (it isn't for a majority of the inhabitants of the planet).
How would you apply scientific model to current economic decisions?

Are you sure you could find such people?
Give me an example economic decision.

Broadly speaking I'd be using evidence to backup any idea, all economic of social policy choices would require evidence.
Say you have two candidates 1 very very skilled doctor, and quite a capable manager or a very very skilled personnel and financial manager with nothing more than a first aid course under his name.

which would you pick?
You seem to be missing the point, I'd be picking the one who was the most skilled, this doesn't currently happen, on a side note - who even said I'd pick one person to lead?.

Currently jobs can go-to people who interview the best, friends of friends - or people who win popularity contests (politicians in that case).
 
is Russell Brand really the best person to deliver the message on their ills?

clearly not, but then who is, and why isn't he (or anyone else) allowed to voice an opinion if they are not "the best" person to do it - do we get to vote on who the best person to talk about something is before letting them talk about it? what is the criteria? Who decides?
 
I hate the man and wouldn't watch anything with him in but I had to see if Paxman ripped him a new one... only to find he didn't have to :p He's got some valid points there but the holes in his arguments are miles wide and i could understand why Paxman had a smirk on his face throughout that I'll refute several of his major points quite simply.
I can just as easily refute yours.

1. We're not destroying the Planet but the environment regardless of whether life exists here or not the Planet is still going to be here the only things that do endanger the planet itself are extraterrestrial forces which we can't control... yet...
While I totally agree with your point, it's usually understood that when people say "destroy the planet" they simply mean - "upset the natural balance in such a was it's hugely detrimental to the survival & prosperity of humans".

2. It's nice for him to say heavily tax the corporations and energy companies but who do you think the companies are going to pass the costs onto hmm... Us!
Tax is on profits, not on revenue.

Historically when corporation tax rates have dropped, have we seen a fall in the average cost per unit to match? - no.

I'll let you why.

It's due to the fact they are not linked.

3. It's all well and good saying the current system is flawed at the end of the day it is they all are unless we were all one collective consciousness it's impossible for us all to be happy.
This isn't even a cogent argument.

Firstly, nobody is saying we need a perfect utopia - just for the system to cater for a greater number than it does.

Secondly, no part of a system being 'perfect or lacking flaws' requires a collective conciousness.

4. This whole thing about those claiming benefits suffering is **** at the end of the day most whom I've seen that are struggling at the moment are people in work not entitled to benefits who seem to be earning less per year than those on benefits I believe the cap is £26,000 I'm one of these people my yearly take home pay is just over £15,000 after Tax yet I still manage to survive whilst paying my bills and mortgage why can't these benefits claimants?
Most people on benefits do not get anywhere near £26,000.

The reality is most people on benefits get LESS than the £15,000 you get, on a side note - most benefits are paid out to people who work or are on pensions not those who are simply unemployed.

5. Regardless of the revolution or not we'll still end up with a system that's flawed and the majority that won't be happy about it.
Baseless assumption.

If you want my two cents on where we could go to make the world a better place my views are bug business needs to go as this stifles the Big C word that everyone knows and loves Competition and Govt needs to be decentralized regional governance is a lot easier than overall as there are less voices pulling you every which way. True you'll then have inequality between regions but a lot less than there is currently.
These are not refuting his ideas, but they are reasonable suggestions with some genuine merit.

(I assume you mean big business, not bug business).

clearly not, but then who is, and why isn't he (or anyone else) allowed to voice an opinion if they are not "the best" person to do it - do we get to vote on who the best person to talk about something is before letting them talk about it? what is the criteria? Who decides?
The irony is, the fact people are listening to the argument because it's coming from him highlights his point.

Extroversion & charisma are highly over-rated in the public environment, with our entire political system being nothing more than a popularity contest.

A system which values these traits over knowledge & skill will tend to get leaders who look good while performing badly.
 
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We need a "None of the above" box on ballots tbh. Everyone could be made to vote then!

Been watching "Brewster's Millions"? :D Perhaps someone should stand as a candidate representing "none of the above" ;)

tbh i was a bit harsh on RB. His sentiments i agree with mostly, but then most rational people do...this is nothing new he is spouting....but i do not decry his right to do so.

I like these Democracy quotes...especially Chaplin's...prophetic.

“If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it.”
― Mark Twain

“As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy.”
― Abraham Lincoln

Society will develop a new kind of servitude which covers the surface of society with a network of complicated rules, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate. It does not tyrannise but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd.”
― Alexis de Tocqueville


“I'm sorry, but I don't want to be an emperor. That's not my business. I don't want to rule or conquer anyone. I should like to help everyone if possible; Jew, Gentile, black man, white. We all want to help one another. Human beings are like that. We want to live by each other's happiness, not by each other's misery. We don't want to hate and despise one another. In this world there is room for everyone, and the good earth is rich and can provide for everyone. The way of life can be free and beautiful, but we have lost the way. Greed has poisoned men's souls, has barricaded the world with hate, has goose-stepped us into misery and bloodshed. We have developed speed, but we have shut ourselves in. Machinery that gives abundance has left us in want. Our knowledge has made us cynical; our cleverness, hard and unkind. We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery, we need humanity. More than cleverness, we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost. The airplane and the radio have brought us closer together. The very nature of these inventions cries out for the goodness in men; cries out for universal brotherhood; for the unity of us all. Even now my voice is reaching millions throughout the world, millions of despairing men, women, and little children, victims of a system that makes men torture and imprison innocent people. To those who can hear me, I say, do not despair. The misery that is now upon us is but the passing of greed, the bitterness of men who fear the way of human progress. The hate of men will pass, and dictators die, and the power they took from the people will return to the people. And so long as men die, liberty will never perish. Soldiers! Don't give yourselves to brutes, men who despise you, enslave you; who regiment your lives, tell you what to do, what to think and what to feel! Who drill you, diet you, treat you like cattle, use you as cannon fodder. Don't give yourselves to these unnatural men - machine men with machine minds and machine hearts! You are not machines, you are not cattle, you are men! You have the love of humanity in your hearts! You don't hate! Only the unloved hate; the unloved and the unnatural. Soldiers! Don't fight for slavery! Fight for liberty! In the seventeenth chapter of St. Luke, it is written that the kingdom of God is within man, not one man nor a group of men, but in all men! In you! You, the people, have the power, the power to create machines, the power to create happiness! You, the people, have the power to make this life free and beautiful, to make this life a wonderful adventure. Then in the name of democracy, let us use that power. Let us all unite. Let us fight for a new world, a decent world that will give men a chance to work, that will give youth a future and old age a security. By the promise of these things, brutes have risen to power. But they lie! They do not fulfill that promise. They never will! Dictators free themselves but they enslave the people. Now let us fight to fulfill that promise. Let us fight to free the world! To do away with national barriers! To do away with greed, with hate and intolerance! Let us fight for a world of reason, a world where science and progress will lead to all men's happiness. Soldiers, in the name of democracy, let us all unite!”
― Charles Chaplin
 
While disillusionment with the political process, the disproportional power of large corporations, the growing divide between the rich and poor and destruction of our planet are clearly important and noteworthy issue, is Russell Brand really the best person to deliver the message on their ills?

Some of the tritely sentimental, hypocritical and downright ignorant remarks that have accompanied this interview have been nothing short of astounding. Instead of being messiah like, all I see is a very rude, pugnacious individual who is inexplicably given a platform to pontificate in a manner that is lacking substance, research or nuance. I think he's more reminiscent of an angry teenager that has only just discovered that the world isn't perfect and is full of injustice.

The sad thing is there are many far more qualified people to deliver these messages. Unfortunately due to his bombastic, celebrity persona and silly little shoes, it is Brand that is afforded the opportunity. Frankly, he squanders it in my opinion.

Moreover, he has the audacity to lambaste the programme 'Who Do You Think You Are' that Paxman guested on. Labeling anything as 'emotional pr0n' when you've starred in nonsense like 'Forgetting Sarah Marshall' and 'Big Brother' is absolutely ridiculous.

Well put. He is nothing more than an eloquent charlatan.
 
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