Unpaid internships

[Sudden]

So came across this article -

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/24/b...conde-nast-ends-internship-program.html?_r=0#!

It seems that a company has now stopped its internship programme due to being sued over pay. I know there have been a few people on here who protest against unpaid internships because 'companies use them to exploit people and want unpaid staff'.

The step taken here however, doesn't seem to have helped anyone. They have just stopped the internship programme. I would imagine they haven't taken on any new staff as a result (though this is just a guess for me). it has however negatively impacted loads of people who could have used it as a stepping stone into the industry and have some good experience on a CV.

Personally, I was lucky in that my internship was paid. However, I would happily have done it unpaid as well due to the fantastic experience and having a big name on my CV. I am lucky enough though that my parents would support me so paid vs unpaid wouldn't make much difference to me personally. I do understand the flip side, that not everyone can afford unpaid internships and those who can may be considered to have an unfair advantage.

However, I do think that the result of such unpaid internships stopping is ultimately negative since it doesn't give people valuable experience, not only for using it as a stepping stone but even just for seeing if the industry is for them. The internship could give them a good idea if this is the kind of work they want to do in the future, rather than waiting until they have a paid job and becoming too late to change careers.

Any other thoughts, opinions? I know i'm taking a risk posting this in GD.

 

[Skidder]

We've had a few interns and we've always paid. I think you get more from people if you show them they have a commercial value, even if they are primarily there to get experience.

In the US unpaid internships are extremely commonplace and accepted.

When I was 18 I did a short unpaid placement with a company that saved me from taking absolutely the wrong career path for me (changed what degree I was going to do off the back of it).

 

[Rich_L]

Give it a few days, they'll reinstate it once the Starbucks withdrawal kicks in.

 

[Suarez7]

Are they completely unpaid, do you get travel cost or anything?

 

[Azza]

Sport science internships in all disciplines across most levels are pretty notorious. Reading advertised an internship in April for a full-time postgraduate first team performance analyst. Attending all home games, some away games, all training session and there was no pay and no expenses contribution.

The uni department advertised a pre-season internship at Wycombe earlier on in the year and then I realised that I wouldn't be able to support myself over the duration of it. Pretty sure that was without any travel and expenses costs covered as well. I'll try and see if I've still got the application.


Obviously if you're able to travel without issue or what ever then I guess it wouldn't be a massive problem if it was in an industry you really wanted to work in. I know a few people who've had great summer internships / placements in engineering and finance. Lots of variables involved.

 

[R.C.Anderson]

Problem I would see with a lot of unpaid internships, is that some people would see it as "I'm not getting paid to do anything, so it doesn't matter what I actually do"

I did a paid internship with Jaguar Land Rover over the Summer holidays during my degree, and for a year in the middle of the degree. I was paid about 1/2 what the grads get paid (and I actually did a lot more work than the grad in my team - they were mainly just shadowing me!) but it made me feel valued, and actually contribute.
If it wasn't paid, I probably wouldn't have done it. Not so much because I wanted money for it, but more I wouldn't want to loose so much from doing it (accommodation, travel etc)

 

[muon]

A lot of employers don't put much value on unpaid internships either if on your CV. NY Times obviously might be a bit different.

 

[One More Solo]

Probably made this post a few times before but here goes...

Companies that can afford to pay interns should do so (example being the football club above and the sports science internship). Companies that can't should not be obliged to BUT the benefit of the internship must flow both ways in that both the company and the intern gain something from the experience. They should not view interns as free lackeys and give them menial work to do.

The arts and media industry works slightly differently as people going into that line of work should know from a very young age just how competitive it is. I did an arts degree and many of my peers are still scrabbling around for work a good few years after the fact and complaining bitterly about how hard they have to work and how little money they have. There is simply not the money to support the volume of people wanting those jobs and if they don't like the sacrifices you have to make they should a) suck it up or b) get a job in a different industry altogether.

 

[Amp34]

If all the unpaid internships were stamped out the companies would have two options. One, employ new people (be they paid interns or full paid employees) or two have a dearth of new talent as there is nobody to replace them. It may take a year of two but in the end the companies will have to employ people of face an employee shortage...

 

[Efour]

Cost cutting con of the modern failing economy.

 

[Sudden]

A lot of employers don't put much value on unpaid internships either if on your CV. NY Times obviously might be a bit different.

But come interview, if you're asked "Why this career?", you'd be able to point to the internship and say "I've seen what it's like, I liked x and x about it. So I know I know i'm going to like it" rather than "Well, I think i'd enjoy it, but no, i've never seen what it's actually like".

Probably made this post a few times before but here goes...

Companies that can afford to pay interns should do so (example being the football club above and the sports science internship). Companies that can't should not be obliged to BUT the benefit of the internship must flow both ways in that both the company and the intern gain something from the experience. They should not view interns as free lackeys and give them menial work to do.

The arts and media industry works slightly differently as people going into that line of work should know from a very young age just how competitive it is. I did an arts degree and many of my peers are still scrabbling around for work a good few years after the fact and complaining bitterly about how hard they have to work and how little money they have. There is simply not the money to support the volume of people wanting those jobs and if they don't like the sacrifices you have to make they should a) suck it up or b) get a job in a different industry altogether.

Agreed that the intern should get something meaningful as otherwise, the internship is pointless and you don't actually learn. Well, you get a name on your CV, which helps for getting jobs, but not for any increase in knowledge or learning. Though if the intern is there for a short time, then it is often difficult to give good stuff since by the time they learn enough to be any use, they are on the way out.

However, the distinction you make, is a difficult one practically since you're judging who can and can't offer unpaid internships. Forcing companies to do it though, could result in situations like this one. It might cause the company a little bit of extra hassle, with a few of the current staff needing to do some stuff which they normally wouldn't, but it's far more damaging for the people who no longer even have the option to take this internship on.

If all the unpaid internships were stamped out the companies would have two options. One, employ new people (be they paid interns or full paid employees) or two have a dearth of new talent as there is nobody to replace them. It may take a year of two but in the end the companies will have to employ people of face an employee shortage...

Why? You're assuming that the work of an intern can't be done by existing staff quite easily. At least my place, the work I did as an intern was fantastic experience for me, but was really below the level of my bosses. They could do it in quarter of the time it took me and I doubt that someone new would be hired if the internship was stopped.

 

[Sudden]

Problem I would see with a lot of unpaid internships, is that some people would see it as "I'm not getting paid to do anything, so it doesn't matter what I actually do"

I did a paid internship with Jaguar Land Rover over the Summer holidays during my degree, and for a year in the middle of the degree. I was paid about 1/2 what the grads get paid (and I actually did a lot more work than the grad in my team - they were mainly just shadowing me!) but it made me feel valued, and actually contribute.
If it wasn't paid, I probably wouldn't have done it. Not so much because I wanted money for it, but more I wouldn't want to loose so much from doing it (accommodation, travel etc)

I understand your point, but surely that's a problem? People expecting to do it (the internship, not the career) just in order to get a job rather than to actually learn from it so they can use it in the future. I'd argue that the knowledge, skills and contacts you gain will be far more useful.

At my earlier internship (though i'm still with the same company), it was coming to an end and all the senior people around me were helping me get something else. They reviewed my CV and applications, contacted people they knew, offered to talk to others etc.

On an unrelated note, it is something that annoys me - a general system geared away from learning for learning's sake (of course you can do that on your own time, but it is a bit more difficult). But that's an entirely separate argument!

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

We've had a few interns and we've always paid. I think you get more from people if you show them they have a commercial value, even if they are primarily there to get experience.

In the US unpaid internships are extremely commonplace and accepted.

When I was 18 I did a short unpaid placement with a company that saved me from taking absolutely the wrong career path for me (changed what degree I was going to do off the back of it).

What was the wrong career path out of interest?

 

[One More Solo]

Agreed that the intern should get something meaningful as otherwise, the internship is pointless and you don't actually learn. Well, you get a name on your CV, which helps for getting jobs, but not for any increase in knowledge or learning. Though if the intern is there for a short time, then it is often difficult to give good stuff since by the time they learn enough to be any use, they are on the way out.

However, the distinction you make, is a difficult one practically since you're judging who can and can't offer unpaid internships. Forcing companies to do it though, could result in situations like this one. It might cause the company a little bit of extra hassle, with a few of the current staff needing to do some stuff which they normally wouldn't, but it's far more damaging for the people who no longer even have the option to take this internship on.

I guess you have to assume companies will act ethically and pay if they can afford to, which is a bit of a stretch given the current situation.

 

[jon86]

In my (American tech) company, annual and summer internships for university students are commonplace, especially in the head offices in San Diego, although we had a few interns over the summer in my UK office. I'm not sure about the UK but in the US, the interns are paid very well, even if they've just started (or are about to start) their degrees, and are paid more than I was paid as a graduate software developer in the UK, even if I deduct 25 - 30% to account for higher living costs. With that said, the company's peers all pay very well too, so good wages are expected.

 

[RomanNose]

I don't think it's fair to have unpaid internships at all and pretty much just enforces inequality ( as only wealthy people can afford to do them).
Technology industry pretty much only offers fairly well paid internships, which is what other sectors should be like.

 

[Amp34]

Why? You're assuming that the work of an intern can't be done by existing staff quite easily. At least my place, the work I did as an intern was fantastic experience for me, but was really below the level of my bosses. They could do it in quarter of the time it took me and I doubt that someone new would be hired if the internship was stopped.

You're missing the point... The company is going to have to hire people eventually to work for them, either due to expansion or retirement. If unpaid internships weren't around there are two options, either paid internships with the same benefits career wise to the intern which the company can then hire permanently or the company hires people that havent done internships.

I did an internship so I understand what you mean about taking longer to do less, however mine was paid, like most/all in my industry. They are used to see if you are up to scratch for employment with the company or to give you experience of the industry.

Either give paid internships or if the industry doesn't want todo that take the chance of hiring people that haven't had the chance to get any industry experience yet. Industries need new blood no matter what...

 

[One More Solo]

I don't think it's fair to have unpaid internships at all and pretty much just enforces inequality ( as only wealthy people can afford to do them).
Technology industry pretty much only offers fairly well paid internships, which is what other sectors should be like.

I don't think that's true at all that only wealthy people can afford to do unpaid internships. I see people my age going travelling all summer etc and they do that by saving up through the year. I don't see what's stopping people saving up in order to do internships over summer, most only last 6-8 weeks.

 

[pitchfork]

Companies rarely hire as many workers as they should, free labour is a big problem here.

Why hire paid labour when you can use a bunch of interns to pick up the slack?

 

[starfighter]

They should pay atleast minimum wage.