When you stop for a moment and think about the possibilities with OpenGL. All those amazing games like...
I'd bet that all future Valve games will be OpenGL
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AMD's Revolutionary Mantle Graphics API Adopted by Industry Leading Game Developers Cloud Imperium,
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I'd bet that all future Valve games will be OpenGL
I'd bet that all future Valve games will be OpenGL
Left 4 Dead 3 please. The left 4 dead games are the only decent OpenGL games i can think of. But they're a bit of an eye sore though, despite the gameplay being solid back in the day.
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Exciting times ahead for AMD owners. I honestly can't wait to see this in action. I really hope it's as ground-breaking as it sounds.
I'd bet that all future Valve games will be OpenGL
If it ever had a chance to rise from the ashes and take revenge on D3D for stealing it's crown then this is it, but the wheels of the Microsoft FUD machine will most likely grind back into motion when it makes a move.
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John Carmack: Nvidia's OpenGL extensions give similar improvements to AMD's Mantle
Happy days for OpenGL
http://67.227.255.239/forum/showthread.php?t=694163
That isn't even slightly what he said, read it then realise that Mantle IS NOT just 9x more draw calls. Carmack is ONLY replying to a specific mention of Mantle's ability to handle more draw calls than DX, it doesn't mention exposing other features or other performance improvements. The only even slightly logical conclusion to draw from what Carmack said is that extensions to openGL can also be made to handle many more draw calls.
of course, extensions to openGL are proprietary, pretty much hardware specific, not industry standards and would be geared purely to one architecture anyway(if AMD were to push similar improvements to openGL extensions it would be no different). To expose the hardware needs code specifically to use the hardware available, GCN hardware isn't available anywhere but GCN based cores thus the code would be useless and incompatible with older AMD architecture and Nvidia as a whole anyway. it would also require a company to put more work into the AMD specific extensions that wouldn't help Nvidia performance in any way and thus makes precisely no difference at all in any way.
Dice already support openGL afaik, and NVapi, and DX and now Mantle, if they supported opengl extensions for GCN hardware, it would be the same work as being done for Mantle, under a different name, and fully incompatible with Nvidia.
Who was responsible for that ? Nvidia's No.1 friend. John Carmack.
John Carmack Apologizes for Rage's "Inexcusable" PC Release
Source
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/new...k-Apologizes-for-Rages-Inexcusable-PC-Release
I don't know about you folks, but i reckon John Carmack could have benefitted from Mantle.
I'd expect them to launch a big AAA game (maybe Half Life 3) for SteamOS with OpenGL first, but both nvidia and AMD OpenGL drivers should be fine in Windows these days. AMD has implied that Mantle will be ported to Linux (by saying it is 'cross platform'), but Valve will want OpenGL pushed.
John Carmack: Nvidia's OpenGL extensions give similar improvements to AMD's Mantle
Happy days for OpenGL
http://67.227.255.239/forum/showthread.php?t=694163
It would seem the Mantle is not going to give such a massive boost as some were expecting then, if nV can match it with some OGL extensions...
Anyone at this point want to bet their house on Mantle giving much more than 10% more FPS?...
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Makes me laugh how many people say OpenGl is a 'truly open standard' as if that meant anything. It's built so that proprietary extensions are king and these drive it forward. It works quite well and I love it as a mechanism for keeping both (all?) sides on the same page, with proprietary stuff added to the standard if it's decent enough and so on.
'Truly' open it is not however.
As for Mantle? It's an API, as others have said it requires GCN for AMD's implementation but I've yet to see anything that talks about if nVidia would have to pay to use the same API calls or not, though they'd of course be behind having to start development of their own implementation only now and would always have to be aware that AMD could move the goalposts by changing the spec. Though if nVidia were already in the marketplace by then it'd be a horrible backfire for AMD too! Which is why it's more likely to be a closed API.
Edit: TL;DR Mantle will probably closed, which is bad. But most things are at least partially closed. So until we know & see how good it is then meh.
'Truly' open it is not however.
As for Mantle? It's an API, as others have said it requires GCN for AMD's implementation but I've yet to see anything that talks about if nVidia would have to pay to use the same API calls or not, though they'd of course be behind having to start development of their own implementation only now and would always have to be aware that AMD could move the goalposts by changing the spec. Though if nVidia were already in the marketplace by then it'd be a horrible backfire for AMD too! Which is why it's more likely to be a closed API.
Edit: TL;DR Mantle will probably closed, which is bad. But most things are at least partially closed. So until we know & see how good it is then meh.
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I'm probably going to end up getting a 780Ti for this generation. But mantle has me seriously interested in AMD offerings. I dont think these offerings from mantle will be apparent with AMDs new 290X though. By this time next year, I think mantle will be a much bigger factor when deciding what GPU to buy.
Speak for yourself
. I know we're all fickle to a degree but I bet a few of you guys who prefer AMD would have different opinions if it was locked to AMD. Suddently the effects might look a bit better.I wouldn't pay extra for PhysX personally if that was the only difference between AMD and nVidia cards but I do appreciate the effects. In Batman, for example, I think they're pretty impressive.
I know they could also be simulated just as well by an open physics standard but they aren't so it's a pointless debate. We are where we are.
I see Mantle as similar to PhysX really (in terms of impact) but I don't have a fixed opinion yet. The problem is there's no detail yet so it's difficult to make any conclusions. I mean are people really going to notice a bump in IQ over the ultra standard in games already? I can't imagine it would be massive over the standard ultra preset in games. Similarly, is a bump in framerate really going to be beneficial for those of us who already largely max games out at good framerates?
An example would be BF4: I play at 1080p with Ultra and 2x MSAA. Now I didn't monitor my framerates but they were way, way over 60 on average. Would an extra, say 10%, really make that much difference? Would a bump in IQ and moving to MSAA 4x at the same framerate make a difference? Probably not. It'll be nice for bragging wars on the benchmark threads on this forums but I don't see it making a massive difference in real terms.
That's not to say I'm saying it's a bad thing. The opposite in fact but it's important to wait (for everyone) before making conclusions. Details will be really interesting.
He's being very humble there and taking on far more of the blame than he should, this quote is much more accurate of the situation:
Granted releasing a game when you knew it would need fresh beta drivers just to work and even then may have issues wasn't that great an idea, but what were they supposed to do? pull the release date and just stand around waiting because ATi/Nvidia had slacked updating their drivers? Personally I think the RAGE fiasco was good for the industry/consumer overall as you haven't seen AMD/Nvidia get that slackly about keeping their drivers up to date since, it's just a pity that iD caught the flack
I've heard that the 290 will be the gpu that benefits the most from mantle, while the other GCN gpu's will still benefit from it greatly, just not quite as much as the 290.
Not entirely sure that is correct. The amount of people who run PhysX on the CPU would tell a different story. I for one would want it and I for one would want to see everyone able to use it. It was said way beck when that Nvidia offered PhysX to AMD but AMD didn't even bother to phone... In fact, it is very similar to what you just posted:
And from Nvidia way back in 2008
http://www.bit-tech.net/custompc/news/602205/nvidia-offers-physx-support-to-amd--ati.html
This is the whole point.... If anybody wants a closed standard, then they are fools. The Industry needs Open standards. Just because I use Nvidia, doesn't make me automatically want PhysX to be closed to Nvidia cards and anyone who thinks that way seriously needs to take a step back and stop it.
I don't me necessarily see little benefit. But that the software offerings (games that use mantle, or use it well) will be few and far between. Or a bit lacklustre initially in their offerings.
I'd think a year down the line, more content will be out there with mantle under the hood (particularly if it lives up to the hype!) and that will weight largely on a purchase.
IE, for me I play mostly ArmA2/3 and Eve online. So i'm not going to see any benefit of a mantle based GPU. I do back star citizen so that will be something where mantle is a factor. but thats not out till 2015 anyway.
The only thing coming in the immediate future is BF4 which offers little to no interest to me.
a year from now, I'll most certainly be thinking long and hard about an AMD GPU. (7970 is what i use atm, no nvidia fanboy here)
I REALLY hope mantle turns out to be kickass.
I don't want PhysX the way it currently is, even on Nvidia GPU's the performance is not all that good, with significant FPS drops.
On anything other than Nvidia GPU's the performance hit is so bad it renders the game unplayable in parts, and there you can't turn it off, it wrecks the game, i would much rather it was not there.
On anything other than Nvidia GPU's the performance hit is so bad it renders the game unplayable in parts, and there you can't turn it off, it wrecks the game, i would much rather it was not there.
Only 3 months til we see what Mantle will bring to the table
Don't you mean December?
I doubt anyone who watched the nVidia dev stream would disagree about the potential proper hardware physics can bring to the table or that its a shame nVidia stiffles that by not properly opening up the API.
Unfortunatly when no one took them up on their offer they had a bit of a temper tantrum though to be fair its not really suprising no one took them up as one of the conditions was the implementation of CUDA and from a business perspective there is no way AMD would do that.
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