Looking for a non-headache inducing replacement for my Sony FW900

Ulfisch

Ulfisch

Ulfisch

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I need a bit of advice regarding my Christmas monitor purchase.

I have had problems with flatscreen monitors in the past, which made me use a traditional Sony FW900 over the last 5 years, unfortunately this monitor is on the way out now.

When trying to use a flatscreen for gaming the following happens:
- sore eyes fairly quickly
- headaches a short while later
- going back to FW900

Although I haven't tried gaming on any flatscreens for the last two years (so this problem might be solved by newer monitors) many monitors gave me the following picture: Do you remember art classes at school when you had to cut out shapes from colored sheets of paper and glue them onto a sheet of paper to compose a picture? That's how some of the monitor displays looked to me (not to the extreme of course, but I hope you know what I mean)

My main problem is of course the eye/head-ache factor, as I'm willing to spend up £600 on a new monitor I would hate to yet again have to return to my fading out FW900 after a few days.

Therefore, what is the main headache inducing mechanism in these monitors:
- 60 Hz refresh rate and flicker?
- background lighting diodes switching on and off in IPS panels?
- screen resolution?
- input lag?
- ...?

Generally I'd quite fancy a 2560 * 1440 27inch monitor but if an ideal 24inch would be around I wouldn't be offended. Although its not everyone's cup of tea I quite like the shiny surface Apple displays, reflection is usually not a big problem where I use the monitor.

Also, would g-synch potentially have a positive impact on my above problems and therefore worth waiting for this technology?

Many Thanks for your advice, especially from people who have similar headache or "cut-out-paper-picture" problems.
 
I wouldn't go 1440p if you play FPS. 1440p is only 60hz. You want either 120hz Or 144Hz monitor. Their only 1080p though. 1440p or 1600p don't do 120hz..

So to stop the headaches you need 120hz
 
usually what can give people headaches/problems with TFT's is the backlighting think its called PWM (think its PULSE WIDTH MODULATION iirc) a monitor such as the ASUS PB278Q has it, where as my Viewsonic VP2770 does not, both are 2560x1440 monitors
 
Ulfisch said:
- background lighting diodes switching on and off in IPS panels?
Click to expand...
PWM based backlight dimming is one of the more common causes of headaches if you are sensitive to it. This is not just limited to IPS panels.

The Samsung S27B970D is one of the few monitors which does not use PWM and it is very Apple-esque. It is on offer this week and so just falls within your budget. It is a 1440p monitor and so only runs at 60Hz, so if refresh rate is the cause this may not help you.

Perhaps get one, try a few long sessions and DSR it if it gives you problems?
 
I started getting headaches from monitors earlier this year, never had a problem in the past whatsoever.

Managed to convince my work to get me a pair of Gunnar glasses. I expected them to be a gimmick really, but they actually help. You might want to consider picking a pair up! They're just glasses without magnifying, or very slight if that, with yellow lenses.
 
@Ulfisch:

First of all, you have to understand that CRT 60Hz and LCD 60Hz are totally different things. In a CRT 60Hz, the "normal status" is a black screen, and the pixels are comprised of electrons hitting a fluorescent layer, which will illuminate for a brief period. If there are no new electrons, it will dim quite immediately. In essence, it will rapidly change between total black and total illumination. And if this refresh rate is low, like 60Hz, it will create a noticeable flicker.

On the contrary, on an LCD 60Hz, there's a separate source of light (earlier CCFL, nowadays LED), and that light is optimally "on" all the time (more of that later). The LCD itself comprises of miniscule transistors on a film, which controls the blocking or passing of the light, whichever is wanted for the moment. The "normal status" is a white screen, the film simply blocks part of it. The 60Hz is just how often the new signals ("the blocking signals") are received, and it will change only the pixels that ask for a change. If done simply like this, there would be no on/off flickering.

The headache:
Optimally, the LCD backlight would have a refresh rate in the kilohertz-range (CCFL), or even continuously on (LED?). This in itself would bring no problems. Unfortunately, most of the manufacturers use PWM (pulse width modulation) to save on the power draw and more freely control the brightness, but at the same time inducing flicker. In all simplicity, PWM gives power to the backlight only part of the time, like 30-60% (known as duty cycle). Even more unfortunately, instead of doing that on a kHz-range, they lower it all the way down to 130Hz-200Hz range. This wasn't that much of a problem with CCFL, as by design the CCFL has a "cooling" time, and will briefly stay lit even if the power drops. Even on a CRT, the 130Hz and higher would be very good, as CRT also has a cooling time. Unfortunately, LED has pretty much an immediate on/off time. 130Hz will guarantee that very few people will notice the flicker. But our nervous system does, which gives us the headache. Most of the monitors won't use PWM if the brightness is set to 100%. But in that scenario, you will usually get dried eyes and headache from the excess brightness.

But there's also a negative to non-PWM: motion blurriness. Human visual system works in a certain sample-and-hold fashion. Blurriness can make your brain have to work harder. With this regard, PWM gives a more distinct difference between two consecutive images, thus reducing perceived blurriness. Low pixel response time will also reduce the blurriness. The high refresh rate monitors (120Hz/144Hz, but not to be confused with PWM refresh rate) usually have very low pixel response times.

And yes, you can get tired eyes and headaches if your resolution is too high with regards to your viewing distance, as you will have to squint to read the text. If you don't have to stress your eyes, you will feel more relaxed. But on the flip side if it's too pixely, your brain will have to do more work to not focus on the "non-essential". BTW, same goes for the reflections of glossy ("shiny") screens, but also on overly aggressive anti-glare surfaces. Your brain will have to "dismiss" the stuff that doesn't belong to the big picture. Your brain has better things to do than focusing on this kind of stuff.

In addition to those, it's important to let your eyes rest a while. If you have an open window nearby, you should give your eyes a break of a minute or two, every hour, and just look at a distance, preferably on a small daze, so your brain can get a breather, too.

So here's a short list for what to keep in mind with regards to headaches:
- PWM
- brightness
- pixel response time (not the same as input lag)
- resolution (vs viewing distance)
- reflections
- anti-glare
- small breaks

There is no universal truth. Some people are more resistant to one factor, but sensitive to another. Or more likely, have grown more resistant to some factors. At the moment, I think I'm more sensitive to PWM, reflections and resolution.

Ps. And all of the above is only with regards to visual sensory. It might also be that your sitting posture is bad, and you're straining your shoulders, which after a while gives you a headache. It could be that you're not re-hydrating yourself properly, etc.
 
I'm not yet quite sold on the G-sync thingy. But then again, I haven't investigated it in any meaningful way, just a brief glance. So can't give you any educated guesses with regards to that, yet...
 
It's fading out, my blacks are more of a dark green now and I haven't found a way to compensate. Lovely monitor but desk space is getting a bit of a problem now as well.
 
You could do a windas calibration - doesn't sound like a serious issue.

anyway, the new eizo FG2421 looks to be a worthy candidate. Look at Vega's comments in that thread. (also check out the fw900 thread in the same forum if you haven't already).
 
spacediver said:
wow, congrats! How did you fix it exactly? Was it a simple color restoration from the menu?
Click to expand...

Yes it was very straightforward once I was able to follow and read your links. I had bought the monitor a few years ago via ebay and therefore never had read through instruction/setup manuals. So I hadn't been aware of the restoration option that becomes available once the monitor has warmed up.
But wow what a difference, vibrant colours are back and due to being able to run a 2048x1280 resolution on 85Hz no headache problems.
 
Ulfisch said:
Yes it was very straightforward once I was able to follow and read your links. I had bought the monitor a few years ago via ebay and therefore never had read through instruction/setup manuals. So I hadn't been aware of the restoration option that becomes available once the monitor has warmed up.
But wow what a difference, vibrant colours are back and due to being able to run a 2048x1280 resolution on 85Hz no headache problems.
Click to expand...

awesome, glad it all worked out. You're lucky that it was so easy to fix yours. Many people have to go through the hassle of WinDAS adjustments (which requires a special cable, dismantling of the chassis, and special software), or even more extreme, CRT rejuvenators such as the Sencore CR7000 to fix their displays.

On the other hand, those more extreme options can be worth it to those who value these wonderful displays.
 
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Ulfisch said:
Yes it was very straightforward once I was able to follow and read your links. I had bought the monitor a few years ago via ebay and therefore never had read through instruction/setup manuals. So I hadn't been aware of the restoration option that becomes available once the monitor has warmed up.
But wow what a difference, vibrant colours are back and due to being able to run a 2048x1280 resolution on 85Hz no headache problems.
Click to expand...

Congrats and seriously keep hold of that FW900 for as long as you can. There is no LCD on the market that will do everything that CRT can do when it comes to performance and picture quality.

I have the FG2421 and it has some serious flaws as did the first one. It's far from perfect as Vega will have you believe.
 
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