Any Bankers ?

Money Laundering is exchanging what could be illegally gained money for legitimate goods e.g. paying cash for a car or house etc. The legal allowed limit before forms etc need to be filled in is circa £11,000.

Depositing cash into a bank is not the same as the cash has not been exchanged for goods. Its still cash.

You may still be asked questions about large sums but thats more a precaution that banks put in place themselves.
 
EyeDot said:
The old wives tale is £10k on the nose..

however have put hundreds of thousands in on many occasion via many different methods over the years and never ever been asked about it.

I think its less about the value and more about how out of place it is to your usual activity.
Click to expand...

Questions aren't asked to the client. You can't rest assured each of those deposits was examined.
 
I've never been pestered depositing... however when withdrawing several thousand in cash they always ask what it's for. I just tell them I'm going to the casino with it or something like that. Nosey gits.
 
asim18 said:
I don't see what money laundering has to do with depositing money.

Laundering is when you make it appear as if money came from a legitimate source. Simply depositing 100K into your bank account is not even close to laundering anything anything at all.

If you deposit 100K into yout bank, you won't get done for money laundering, as absolutely no attempt at money laundering has been made. If anything, you'll get done for tax evasion if you cant prove you've paid tax on it, or if you cant prove it's exempt from tax.
Click to expand...

I'm not entirely sure I agree with you Asim, I think it's the fact that just depositing money into yours or someone else's bank account is effectively the same process of turning dirty money into clean money.

For instance, working in a law firm if a client came to the office with £50k in cash and said "this is for the deposit on my new house that we're going to exchange on next week, do you think you could arrange for it to be put into the client account?" you decline and report it to the MLRO. You're aware of why we can't do this, it's turning potentially dirty money into clean money through the firms bank account.

Likewise, if you just take the same money and go and put it into your own bank account and then transfer it by BACS transfer to the law firm, you've still effectively carried out the same transaction. And because of that, the banks being regulated by the FCA are, I'm sure, obliged to flag it up and report it.

So it may not by strict definition be the same thing, but the principle is effectively the same and both the tax man and SOCA are going to be interested.

(SOCA because large sums of cash are deemed typical of organised crime, i.e. drugs, and because there is a belief that large quantities of this money are then used to finance terrorism etc.)
 
Hades said:
I'm in the IT side of banking but have to regularly sit the anti money laundering training. There is no fixed amount although banks will have automated scanning software looking at all transactions. Each bank will have its own limits which trigger something to be looked at. But it also looks at unusual patterns such as someone spending a larger than normal amount of money, or dealing with companies or countries on a sanctions list, etc.

You also won't get questions asked... That would tip someone off. They will investigate in the background.
Click to expand...

The above isn't entirely accurate (but pretty close), there is a specific limit where occasional transactions get automatically flagged and that is 15,000 euros. A series of transactions that add up to 15,000 euros will also count.

However any unusual transaction can be flagged if the bank suspects it may be an attempt to launder money.
 
Amy sum of several thousand gets the attention of the banks marketeers. Would you like to invest in this surefire fund? I am sure the counter clerks have a big red button to push when you deposit cash or transfer large sums of money into your account.

I have never been questioned on the source of funds, just how I can improve the banks bottom line. I have sold my house so am maxing out several savings accounts and switching it about. It is interesting to see how far I get across the banking hall before being approached to invest in something.
 
Von Smallhausen said:
There are quite a few on here.
Click to expand...

:D

Cheers for the in put.. 10k no problems just taken into a room to count privately and a joke off the young lady doing it saying are you sure this is your joint account and not your wife's because it's xmas and she might spend it all, Just asked her if that's how you think as women and can I recount it then :)
 
J-FRO said:
I'm not entirely sure I agree with you Asim, I think it's the fact that just depositing money into yours or someone else's bank account is effectively the same process of turning dirty money into clean money.

For instance, working in a law firm if a client came to the office with £50k in cash and said "this is for the deposit on my new house that we're going to exchange on next week, do you think you could arrange for it to be put into the client account?" you decline and report it to the MLRO. You're aware of why we can't do this, it's turning potentially dirty money into clean money through the firms bank account.

Likewise, if you just take the same money and go and put it into your own bank account and then transfer it by BACS transfer to the law firm, you've still effectively carried out the same transaction. And because of that, the banks being regulated by the FCA are, I'm sure, obliged to flag it up and report it.

So it may not by strict definition be the same thing, but the principle is effectively the same and both the tax man and SOCA are going to be interested.

(SOCA because large sums of cash are deemed typical of organised crime, i.e. drugs, and because there is a belief that large quantities of this money are then used to finance terrorism etc.)
Click to expand...

Yeah money laundering and tax evasion are usually not interchangeable.

You won't get "done" for money laundering unless you've actually made an attempt at laundering, for example actually creating phantom business customers. When you perform the aforementioned properly, you end up declaring this and end up paying tax. The money is then 100% legitimate, taxed, recorded income. You can then go put a £500,000 cash deposit on a mansion, and if anyone asks, you can throw them your business's ledger, payroll whatever.

Now say for example you're doing cash in hand jobs and not declaring your earnings to HMRC. You go try to put £500,000 cash deposit on a mansion, the tax man asks where it came from, you will have absolutely no paper record of where it came from. You haven't laundering anything, you're not attempting to launder anything, you will only get done for tax evasion on those 500,000 undeclared pounds. Then they will scrutinise your current house and car. They will want to see records of taxed income which paid for your house and car.

J-FRO said:
I'm not entirely sure I agree with you Asim, I think it's the fact that just depositing money into yours or someone else's bank account is effectively the same process of turning dirty money into clean money.
Click to expand...

It's absolutely not. Money doesn't simply turn clean by giving it to someone else :D. When you forward money into someone's account and the tax man picks up on it, he will simply see where it came from and go speak to the depositor.


The laundering of money is an active and ongoing operation of falsifying records, creating phantom business, etc.

Simply forwarding money from one person to another is not laundering anything at all.

Well I'm just speaking from an idealistic perspective of doing it "properly". If you wanna attempt to get 500,000 into a bank account, and then rest assured thinking it's been successfully laundered, be my guest :D
 
Last edited:
asim18, not sure how you think that paying money into a bank account can't be part of money laundering.....

You are aware of the stages of money laundering, right?

It is something which criminally obtained cash goes through every day. Be it stolen, or the profit of illegal activity.

And yes, I work in banking.


In response to OP - 1. Why does it matter? If you have money just go and pay it in. If it has a legitimate source then what's the issue? Just be prepared to tell the Cashier where it came from if they ask. 2. There is NO set amount. ANY amount could trigger further investigation.
 
Last edited:
BDEE said:
asim18, not sure how you think that paying money into a bank account can't be part of money laundering.....

You are aware of the stages of money laundering, right?

It is something which criminally obtained cash goes through every day. Be it stolen, or the profit of illegal activity.

And yes, I work in banking.
Click to expand...

I'm not disputing that "paying money into a bank account can't be a part of money laundering". Don't know how you got that idea.

What I'm disputing is this:
"I think it's the fact that just depositing money into yours or someone else's bank account is effectively the same process of turning dirty money into clean money."


BDEE said:
I work in banking.
Click to expand...
Oh lol, no wonder :p
 
BDEE said:
In response to OP - 1. Why does it matter? If you have money just go and pay it in. If it has a legitimate source then what's the issue? Just be prepared to tell the Cashier where it came from if they ask. 2. There is NO set amount. ANY amount could trigger further investigation.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter I'd pay in cash over the counter either way which is what I did this morning. I was asking for an up to date answer from someone in the know to fill in my lack of knowledge on it. I've never paid a large amount in before so was just curious, tend to deal in cash more often than not.
 
asim18 said:
It's absolutely not. Money doesn't simply turn clean by giving it to someone else :D. When you forward money into someone's account and the tax man picks up on it, he will simply see where it came from and go speak to the depositor.


The laundering of money is an active and ongoing operation of falsifying records, creating phantom business, etc.

Simply forwarding money from one person to another is not laundering anything at all.

Well I'm just speaking from an idealistic perspective of doing it "properly". If you wanna attempt to get 500,000 into a bank account, and then rest assured thinking it's been successfully laundered, be my guest :D
Click to expand...

I think the point I was getting at is that the difference between

(1) what money laundering is in the strict sense (the using of companies and other such methods to make dirty money look like clean money); and
(2) depositing large sums of untaxed cash obtained through tax evasion

is not going to bother HMRC or police in the slightest. They're both criminal offences and they will cooperate on both occasions to stop you and to seize and/or make you account for what is due and owing to the governments coffers.

You stated "I don't see what money laundering has to do with depositing money" and I was merely pointing out that it has quite a bit to do with it. There's a reason drug dealers don't just deposit all their cash into bank accounts, it looks fishy. That's why they try to launder it and often through the property market. Likewise that is what money laundering has to to do with depositing money. Whether it's organised crime or standard tax evasion, both if prevalent enough, are going to raise big red flags to HMRC and the police. So taking big wads of cash to the bank and trying to just put it your account no questions asked isn't going to work without someone taking a nose at the situation.

Taken from HMRC themselves:

Money laundering can be used as a means to disguise the nature of profits generated from many types of criminality. This criminality can be tax evasion and thereby of direct interest to the Inland Revenue. Or it can be other serious forms of criminality, such as dealings in drugs, alcohol, tobacco or people trafficking. These crimes are of interest to others such as Customs and the police, and the Inland Revenue will work with these bodies to ensure that effective and co-ordinated action is taken against those engaged in such activities. In some cases money laundering is used to disguise both tax evasion and other criminality, in which case the Revenue will work with others to investigate and prosecute, sharing information as necessary.

Source: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/specialist/antimoneylaunder-strat.pdf
Click to expand...

As you can see, the strict difference in definition is of little significance to them. They'll come after you either way.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom