SNP Referendum Nonsense

[Columbo]

Should the vote go 'Yes', how long before people start whinging about being ruled by the EU?

They won't be in the EU because as has been stated by every single person of power within the EU no new member states will be permitted without adoption of the single currency.

Although Salmond seems to be not only deaf but also thinks Scotland's economy will be big enough for the EU to ignore that policy just for Scotland.

 

[platypus]

You're attempting to keep Stirling. Why wouldn't we, it's a Scottish town.

I'll admit, I guffawed .

 

[platypus]

They won't be in the EU because as has been stated by every single person of power within the EU no new member states will be permitted without adoption of the single currency.

Although Salmond seems to be not only deaf but also thinks Scotland's economy will be big enough for the EU to ignore that policy just for Scotland.

But we're being told that Scottish membership of the EU is a forgone conclusion, a mere formality, aren't we?

 

[Burnsy2023]

The other thing about the EU, is that they have no need to compromise on most of Salmond's requests. Scotland doesn't have much bargaining power on this.

 

[platypus]

never saw anything about Scotland being told they would have to take the euro, can you please post me a link, had a google but no new articles, surprising really
but yet again, all the points are based on opinion and crystal balls, what you have done is listed the points that are potential negatives of Scotland leaving the uk, but none are set in stone and no one can say that they wouldn't happen in an independent Scotland - and none are definite positives in retaining the union

Then you've missed the quite widely publicised convergence criteria, refering to the EU requirement that any new member state will have to adopt the Euro.

Presumably should Scotland join the EU, they would be given time to change banking legislation in order to adopt the Euro (as Sweden were for example). You are right that nothing is set in stone, and yes, the EU may make an exception for Scotland in this case, but why on earth would they?

 

[Columbo]

But we're being told that Scottish membership of the EU is a forgone conclusion, a mere formality, aren't we?

Oh yes, I forgot that bit. Salmond says it is, so therefore it must be. He of course has provided no further detail and hasn't provided an alternative or plan B based on the EU's own rules.

The other thing about the EU, is that they have no need to compromise on most of Salmond's requests. Scotland doesn't have much bargaining power on this.

Exactly, but the SNP seem to think they do.

 

[the_r_sole]

Then you've missed the quite widely publicised convergence criteria, refering to the EU requirement that any new member state will have to adopt the Euro.

Presumably should Scotland join the EU, they would be given time to change banking legislation in order to adopt the Euro (as Sweden were for example). You are right that nothing is set in stone, and yes, the EU may make an exception for Scotland in this case, but why on earth would they?

that's assuming Scotland would fit the "new member state" criteria and not inherit anything from the UK, does that also mean that the remaining new body of England, wales and NI would have to reapply and adopt the euro as their place at the table would surely be different given they would have a different geography/population/industry etc (obviously this point is not serious before anyone goes chicken on it - but the point is that everything is up for discussion and there is lots of uncertainty, the problem is when people claim one side or the other on an undefined and promote is as fact)

 

[realBabelfish]

scots - dont forget how great the last scottish head honcho was.... gordon brown. be afraid, be VERY afraid lol.

 

[Columbo]

that's assuming Scotland would fit the "new member state" criteria and not inherit anything from the UK, does that also mean that the remaining new body of England, wales and NI would have to reapply and adopt the euro as their place at the table would surely be different given they would have a different geography/population/industry etc (obviously this point is not serious before anyone goes chicken on it - but the point is that everything is up for discussion and there is lots of uncertainty, the problem is when people claim one side or the other on an undefined and promote is as fact)

No because the UK would still exist as a Union, governed by the same people and laws which are already agreed.

If Scotland chooses to leave that Union then it seems fairly obvious that it should fall into the new member state category as a brand new independent nation governed by a different set of values.

The EU have publicly stated as much already anyway which Salmond and his cronies seem to totally ignore and continually fail to address.

 

[the_r_sole]

No because the UK would still exist as a Union, governed by the same people and laws which are already agreed.

it would be a different union, made up of different members, governed by the same people but governing a different demographic so how can they inherit what was setup when the eu came into force when they are a different entity?

 

[daver]

Normally I would think the EU would be supporting the SNP as much as it could, however there are too many ramifications with regards to Spain in particular but also Italy, Belgium, Germany etc that they will probably make it as difficult as possible.

 

[grumpysculler]

The SNP position on EU membership is quite clear and makes sense. They want to modify the governing treaties rather than go down the route of "new member." Fair enough.

This route requires the consent of EVERY current member state. If Greece says no, Scotland can't do it.

Sounds like a good plan. Oh hang on, no it doesn't.

 

[Columbo]

it would be a different union, made up of different members, governed by the same people but governing a different demographic so how can they inherit what was setup when the eu came into force when they are a different entity?

You are clutching at straws.

The UK is a member state of the EU.
If Scotland leaves the UK, the UK still exists and is still a member.
Scotland is no longer a member of the UK or the EU

This is not up for debate, it is fact.

The debate is not only around whether Scotland would be allowed to enter under it's own terms but whether it would be allowed to enter at all.

Given that the EU and UK Government have put doubt on both Scotland joininng the EU with the pound and Scotland even retaining Sterling in the first place, I would have thought that the SNP would have been very clear on fiscal alternatives but as with everything Salmond related there is not 1 gram of worthy detail.

This policy is central to the SNP's plans and none of it is guaranteed either in law or verbal agreement.

 

[gjrc]

go on Scotland. go vote for independence

how long before you are cap in hand at the door of the rest of the union asking for handouts?

crazy vote, being conducted by two power mad politicians who want nothing more than their names to go down in history. arrogant, self important maniacs (Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon).

 

[deuse]

snip.

The people of Scotland may vote leave the EU after seeing what happened in southern Ireland. I know I will be.

 

[Burnsy2023]

The people of Scotland may vote leave the EU after seeing what happened in southern Ireland. I know I will be.

Say what?

Ireland's economy depends on the EU, especially the tech services like MS, HP etc and they even got bailed out by the EU.

 

[the_r_sole]

You are clutching at straws.

The UK is a member state of the EU.
If Scotland leaves the UK, the UK still exists and is still a member.
Scotland is no longer a member of the UK or the EU

This is not up for debate, it is fact.

please show me the future where this has become fact - as I said, my point wasn't entirely serious, not clutching at straws but illustrating that everything is up for discussion - people are spouting facts which are really just views that may or may not come to fruition.
What we need is positivity from both sides outlining their ideas for the future, much like before any other vote, the current trend of one side putting up ideas and the other shooting them down instead of putting their own policies forward is not helpful for anyone looking to make a decision

 

[Columbo]

The people of Scotland may vote leave the EU after seeing what happened in southern Ireland. I know I will be.

Which would be fine if thats what the SNP were planning but it isn't, Salmond wants to be part of the EU.

 

[deuse]

Which would be fine if thats what the SNP were planning but it isn't, Salmond wants to be part of the EU.

Maybe salmond has found some more oil or England is giving back all the money they nicked from Scotland

 

[Schlong&Stable]

please show me the future where this has become fact - as I said, my point wasn't entirely serious, not clutching at straws but illustrating that everything is up for discussion - people are spouting facts which are really just views that may or may not come to fruition.
What we need is positivity from both sides outlining their ideas for the future, much like before any other vote, the current trend of one side putting up ideas and the other shooting them down instead of putting their own policies forward is not helpful for anyone looking to make a decision

So the SNP's plan for secession is to to... 'have discussions' which may or may not bear fruit for Scotland.