SNP Referendum Nonsense

[No1newts]

Reading and listening to the stuff they come out with is lolworthy. Scottish bloke I work with rang me today just to complain about it (for 35mins lol)

Some shamefaced lies, the only thing missing is promising to pave the streets in gold and guarantee a WC win in the first year.

On topic, OP of course they won't let you vote. You left and recognise there is a better alternative, can't have you spreading the heathen views/truth. That would be bad for Salmond.

 

[CircleFaust]

go on Scotland. go vote for independence

how long before you are cap in hand at the door of the rest of the union asking for handouts?

crazy vote, being conducted by two power mad politicians who want nothing more than their names to go down in history. arrogant, self important maniacs (Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon).

could they not have asked for a referendum for more powers to be devolved?

what is it they don't like about the system as it is

surely they are all members of parliment and can vote on any laws etc introduced.
surely you're free to vote for who you want. if no one in scotalnd likes the conservatives can you not vote for someone else and help keep them out of power.

 

[Columbo]

please show me the future where this has become fact

I'm talking about the point of Scotland becoming independent. None of what I said will be any different by then.

The UK may choose to leave the EU in the post election referendum but that is a different debate.

But in between then and now, the UK will remain an EU member. If Scotland chooses to leave the UK it is not guaranteed a place in either the EU, NATO or guaranteed to keep the pound.

That is fact at this point.

Salmond thinks he can answer all of these with a 'glass is is half full' attitude and while positivity is all well and good, it often masks reality and skews difficult to read facts.

 

[V F]

Reading and listening to the stuff they come out with is lolworthy. Scottish bloke I work with rang me today just to complain about it (for 35mins lol)

Some shamefaced lies, the only thing missing is promising to pave the streets in gold and guarantee a WC win in the first year.

On topic, OP of course they won't let you vote. You left and recognise there is a better alternative, can't have you spreading the heathen views/truth. That would be bad for Salmond.

That was funny and Westminster tells the truth. Has the peoples interests at heart. I don't see them proposing anything.

 

[Columbo]

what is it they don't like about the system as it is

What Salmond doesn't like is that he doesn't have as much power as he could have in an independent Scotland.

My experience of the Scots I work with are that they see right through him.

That was funny and Westminster tells the truth. Has the peoples interests at heart. I don't see them proposing anything.

What is there to propose? Scotland are already benefiting from free Tuition fees, prescriptions etc etc in the current union.

 

[the_r_sole]

...it is not guaranteed...

That is fact at this point.

you are indeed correct and that is my entire point - nothing is guaranteed so why shoot everything down instead of opening discussions and exploring the potential...

 

[233]

If god forbid there is a yes vote will I be able to retain my uk passport and remain British


Secondly watch house prices sky rocket in Carlisle as those with. Sense bail. Out

 

[Burnsy2023]

But in between then and now, the UK will remain an EU member. If Scotland chooses to leave the UK it is not guaranteed a place in either the EU, NATO or guaranteed to keep the pound.

I think it would be very unlikely for the EU not to accept Scotland as a member, but that will come with conditions that may be unpopular with the Scottish people.

 

[Columbo]

you are indeed correct and that is my entire point - nothing is guaranteed so why shoot everything down instead of opening discussions and exploring the potential...

But EU membership and retaining the pound is absolutely central to the SNP's policy.

If either or both were enshrined in law or if the policy's were not as key as they are to the SNP's vision then there would be no debate.
Even if the SNP's had an alternative that would be something but they don't.

Salmond seems to think that by farting a positive wind across Brussels he'll get everything when the reality is he has no bargaining position from which to start.

 

[Columbo]

I think it would be very unlikely for the EU not to accept Scotland as a member, but that will come with conditions that may be unpopular with the Scottish people.

I think you are probably right but I don't see them getting in while at the same refusing the Euro, let not forget that every single member state must approve their application and if it on the basis of a non adoption of the Euro I can see some states not going for it.

 

[the_r_sole]

But EU membership and retaining the pound is absolutely central to the SNP's policy.

If either or both were enshrined in law or if the policy's were not as key as they are to the SNP's vision then there would be no debate.
Even if the SNP's had an alternative that would be something but they don't.

Salmond seems to think that by farting a positive wind across Brussels he'll get everything when the reality is he has no bargaining position from which to start.

but not central to the referendum, after all the snp might not have anything to do with these discussions further down the line

remember what the question is

 

[Arazi]

Uk has been so long since 1707 so it time for scotland go free from uk also when i was stay i england for few daysand the went to shop but refused scottish money which is same as english.. i think it time for future for scotland and i would go for yes..

lol

 

[grumpysculler]

I think it would be very unlikely for the EU not to accept Scotland as a member, but that will come with conditions that may be unpopular with the Scottish people.

And therein lies the rub.

The SNP vision of the future is quite a nice one (except for the bit where I lose my job). The problem is the odds on delivering it are somewhere worse than zero.

We are being asked to vote on the principle of independence and then accept whatever settlement is reached. If a Yes vote happens and Scotland gets totally shafted in negotiations, then we all have to bend over and take it. No Sterling zone, EU membership with all the worst bits, no NATO, everything goes wrong - we will still become independent and then we will wish we had things as good as Greece.

Of course, the SNP are now claiming that the White Paper is the basis for independence and therefore must be respected by Westminster (which is nonsense).

 

[Shadez]

...

We are being asked to vote on the principle of independence and then accept whatever settlement is reached. If a Yes vote happens and Scotland gets totally shafted in negotiations, then we all have to bend over and take it. No Sterling zone, EU membership with all the worst bits, no NATO, everything goes wrong - we will still become independent and then we will wish we had things as good as Greece.

...

oh i can see the history books already.

In a rush to get the terms decided before the march 2016 date for independence Salmond signs a late draft of the independence treaty.

In section 66 paragraph 6 of the treaty the devious and cunning tory government manage to sneak in the following clause.

66.6 The newly formed Scottish country shall here by adopt all dept accumulated by the United Kingdom and also succeed all oil field rights to the United Kingdom.

 

[No1newts]

That was funny and Westminster tells the truth. Has the peoples interests at heart. I don't see them proposing anything.

Don't get me wrong all politicians are thieving crooks but if you are completely honest Scotland has a good deal, a very good deal at the moment considering we are supposed to be one and you are funded free prescriptions and uni places.

At the moment it strikes me as Salmond trying to fluff his own next as opposed to helping Scotland.

 

[Mark A]

Will we have to change the Union Flag if they do vote yes?

I don't think anyone knows yet. It's such an iconic design throughout the world, hope they don't change it.

 

[Bear]

Uk has been so long since 1707 so it time for scotland go free from uk also when i was stay i england for few daysand the went to shop but refused scottish money which is same as english.. i think it time for future for scotland and i would go for yes..

Accept it isn't, the problem with Scottish money is that there are three different issuing banks so a shop that has never seen a Scottish note is hardly going to accept it is it?

 

[Amp34]

No because the UK would still exist as a Union, governed by the same people and laws which are already agreed.

If Scotland chooses to leave that Union then it seems fairly obvious that it should fall into the new member state category as a brand new independent nation governed by a different set of values.

The EU have publicly stated as much already anyway which Salmond and his cronies seem to totally ignore and continually fail to address.

Exactly, much like A senior partner leaving company. The company name doesn't change, nor does any affiliations it has or the business it is in. On the other hand the partner leaving will have to set up their new company, get any affiliations they need and then start work completely seperately.

The UK will still be the United Kingdom, except it will be the united kingdom of England, Wales, northern island and it's dependencies (or something similar). No NATO, EU or other reapplication.

 

[the_r_sole]

i see it more like a divorce where the partners should get an equal (proportional) split of everything and can continue to have the same family name, relationships with people etc - guess it just depends on whether you are being deliberately negative about one side trying to outline the aims rather than discussing the potential opportunities in the equation
there are many issues to be discussed but I don't understand why the uk government don't outline a case for the union rather than just telling scotland they can't have this, they can't have that when everything is up for discussion/negotiation

 

[Muffin`]

i see it more like a divorce where the partners should get an equal (proportional) split of everything and can continue to have the same family name, relationships with people etc - guess it just depends on whether you are being deliberately negative about one side trying to outline the aims rather than discussing the potential opportunities in the equation
there are many issues to be discussed but I don't understand why the uk government don't outline a case for the union rather than just telling scotland they can't have this, they can't have that when everything is up for discussion/negotiation

How do you quantify an equal share? There is no precedent for this, no divorce court at the UN. Scotland leaving the Union will hurt the rUK so the rUK has a duty to fight tooth and nail for whatever is in its peoples best interest, just like Scotland would look to do. Implying that it's petty on arguing over asses seems a somewhat juvenile way to look at the breakup. The rUK would hold all the cards, it's up to the Scottish people to decide how they plan to go on if the promises told to them by the YES campaign don't come to fruition.