SNP Referendum Nonsense

Angilion · 29 Nov 2013 at 02:04

Biohazard said:
Hmmm. Well why the general sentiment that it would be treated as one?

It's all over the Scottish media on essentially a daily basis.

You might see it there too, like you see it here. It doesn't exist here. Why should I take your word for it existing in the Scottish media?

Come on, give me any example of anyone anywhere saying that the quasi-independent Scotland you're calling for would be treated as an international pariah state. Any example other than your own mind, that is.

Biohazard · 29 Nov 2013 at 02:05

Yes, it's all just a mirage. There have been no outrageous claims in this, it's all just my 30 year old over active imagination.

I would ask why should I take your word on it not being there, but I don't really give a ****.

It's all in the other thread.

Biohazard · 29 Nov 2013 at 02:07

Angilion said:
It's not too true.

You obviously don't realise that independence is independence. Scotland could negotiate all it likes, but that doesn't automatically mean that every country in the EU must allow Scotland to dictate its own terms for joining the EU and force them on the EU.

That's a different question entirely, the point you made was that Scotland wouldn't be inside the EU when negotiating.

It would.

But I'm sure you're going to tell me how everybody is going to block Scottish ascension.

No1newts · 29 Nov 2013 at 08:02

Angilion said:
And Scotland outside of the UK will not be part of the UK. So it won't be within the EU, because it's the UK that's within the EU.

Are you after independence or aren't you?

In name only, they still want everything we have for free.

They are the woman of the divorce hoping to fleece the husband for as much as they can get. (This is a comment on the yes campaign, not Scots in general before someone goes Braveheart on me!)

leaskovski · 29 Nov 2013 at 08:08

You know what, I say sod it. Let them do it. If it proves to be bad for them, then 'ha ha', if it proves to be good for them, then 'good for you!'

Can it have any negative effect on the rest of us?

K-2 · 29 Nov 2013 at 09:03

leaskovski said:
You know what, I say sod it. Let them do it. If it proves to be bad for them, then 'ha ha', if it proves to be good for them, then 'good for you!'

Can it have any negative effect on the rest of us?

Typical patronising comment from someone who pretends they don't care but are clearly deeply hurt/annoyed by Scotland's audacity in suggesting it would be better off not being part of the UK. Thanks for the seal of approval but may I ask why you'd laugh if things turned out badly?

Should the people of Scotland vote yes and we become an independent nation, why do people like you seem to be half wishing for everything to go **** up?

Hate to say it, but that blithering idiot Madeley may have had a point with his divorce analogy. Are you guys just bitter that Scotland made the first move in this potential break up? Pretty sad that some of you would wish ill on us for trying to take responsibility for our own affairs and hell, maybe even make our country a better place in the process. This 'F you' attitude just looks like you're just scrambling to retain your dignity as we start assembling our stuff in the hallway ready for departure.

spudbynight · 29 Nov 2013 at 09:08

Werewolf said:
IIRC in the case of the republic of Ireland there is some form of agreement that has been negotiated with the content providers and some payments.

BBC (and other UK stations) are not available OTA in the Republic of Ireland. It is possible to pick them up from a normal aerial if you live close enough to a transmitter in NI and can pick up a signal.

People can receive UK stations on SKY or on Cable - but in those cases money is paid to the stations for them to be broadcast.

wordy · 29 Nov 2013 at 09:11

Personaly I don't give a toss about Scottish idependence if it benefits them then good luck. I've always viewed them as foreigners and care as little about Scotland as I would about Eritrea.

K-2 · 29 Nov 2013 at 09:24

wordy said:
Personaly I don't give a toss about Scottish idependence if it benefits them then good luck. I've always viewed them as foreigners and care as little about Scotland as I would about Eritrea.

Thanks for taking the time to tell us how little you care. :rolleyes:

covenantuk · 29 Nov 2013 at 09:26

Biohazard said:
Hmmm. Well why the general sentiment that it would be treated as one?

It's all over the Scottish media on essentially a daily basis.

Then I must be living in a parallel universe Scotland...

godinman · 29 Nov 2013 at 09:32

K-2 said:
Thanks for taking the time to tell us how little you care.

It is relevant to the discussion I suppose.

Overall I too am pretty indifferent. If I was Scottish I think I'd want to stay with the UK, if only to dilute the proper scummy areas of the cities with more decent folk. I wonder what the scum to normal folk ratio would be after the change?

On a serious note, is this not to be proper independence then? It sounds like they'll be trying to keep a lot of the good stuff. I think if they vote to leave then they should leave properly and if they don't want the euro then they'll have to make their own currency, or would they just barter trade in smack and drunken violence?

Amp34 · 29 Nov 2013 at 09:44

Biohazard said:
There is, I've told you where to find it. The other thread, the media. You're a big enough boy, I'm sure you'll manage.

I'm not sitting throwing quotes and articles back and forth when it's already been done.

No, you're not posting links because there aren't any... Much like the other thread, no links or names, just "find them yourself"...

Amp34 · 29 Nov 2013 at 09:48

Biohazard said:
The UK is a unitary state. Of course Scotland is in the EU just as England Wales and NI is.

No, the United Kingdom is in the EU. If all constituent parts of the UK are separately listed as EU members then it would be different. They are not however.

Amp34 · 29 Nov 2013 at 09:50

Angilion said:
You might see it there too, like you see it here. It doesn't exist here. Why should I take your word for it existing in the Scottish media?

Come on, give me any example of anyone anywhere saying that the quasi-independent Scotland you're calling for would be treated as an international pariah state. Any example other than your own mind, that is.

Biohazard is a "politician", you won't get a straight answer out of him...

as shown in the subsequent reply.

Turambar · 29 Nov 2013 at 09:53

Amp34 said:
No, the United Kingdom is in the EU. If all constituent parts of the UK are separately listed as EU members then it would be different. They are not however.

A car full of passengers drives onto a ferry. Are the passengers on the ferry or just in the car?

the_r_sole · 29 Nov 2013 at 09:55

can anyone tell me why the issue of Europe is so crucial to the no campaign? Voting to stay in the union and then having an in/out referendum makes the issue fairly weightless in the overall debate - unless they were saying, to stay in the EU Scotland should vote for independence as that would be the only way to guarantee membership of any sort...

http://www.heraldscotland.com/u/u/f...ves-iscotland-would-still-be-in-eu.1385649083

Amp34 · 29 Nov 2013 at 10:02

Turambar said:
A car full of passengers drives onto a ferry. Are the passengers on the ferry or just in the car?

A family have family travel insurance. One moves out and has to buy independent insurance...

We could carry on with pointless analogies all day but that's not going to change the fact that even Salmond doesnt agree with that point. Even they admit an amendment of the legislation would have to happen before Scotland could become an independent entity in the EU (without having to renegociate terms). Trouble is that involves all EU member states agreeing to it. THAT is the problem as at least one has already dismissed this and several others may have cause to do that as well.

eddiemcgarrigle · 29 Nov 2013 at 10:03

The issue over EU membership is simply scaremongering and the Spanish are causing a little scene because they are worried about Catalonia.

Interesting little piece in the usually right-wing, 'no' to independence Scotsman newspaper where the Governor of the BOE has welcomed talks with the Scottish Government over a currency union. So much for the 'naw' campaign and it's claims over the continued use of sterling, which would be in the interests of both Scotland and England .

Schlong&Stable · 29 Nov 2013 at 10:10

eddiemcgarrigle said:
The issue over EU membership is simply scaremongering and the Spanish are causing a little scene because they are worried about Catalonia.

This is a bold claim. It would not be in Spain's interests to admit Scotland to the EU because of the Catalan situation. So what makes you think this is purely scaremongering on their part? Do you think they will accept Scotland if such a move would strengthen the Catalan independence movement? Of course not.

Interesting little piece in the usually right-wing, 'no' to independence Scotsman newspaper where the Governor of the BOE has welcomed talks with the Scottish Government over a currency union. So much for the 'naw' campaign and it's claims over the continued use of sterling, which would be in the interests of both Scotland and England .

Whether the Governor welcomes it or not is moot, the final decision on a currency union rests with the UK government. HOWEVER this is all moot anyway, because ascension to the EU WILL require Scotland to take the Euro. Anyone claiming otherwise has their head buried in the sand.

Amp34 · 29 Nov 2013 at 10:10

the_r_sole said:
can anyone tell me why the issue of Europe is so crucial to the no campaign? Voting to stay in the union and then having an in/out referendum makes the issue fairly weightless in the overall debate - unless they were saying, to stay in the EU Scotland should vote for independence as that would be the only way to guarantee membership of any sort...

http://www.heraldscotland.com/u/u/f...ves-iscotland-would-still-be-in-eu.1385649083

Because it affects a few other significant pledges (such as keeping the pound and the BoE) and there is significant evidence out there to suggest what Salmond is saying is incorrect and a pipe dream. As mentioned a lot in this thread most points will be about negotiation with the UK, national debt for example, and no one knows how it will happen so it's a bit difficult to debate.