Buying a house with kitchen 'extension'

Mr.Stu · 2 Dec 2013 at 16:15

Appreciate your thoughts on this one.

House has a space at the rear of the garage that used to be a sunroom. Single skin brick walls.

3-4 years ago this was converted to be the kitchen. Internal insulation was added, and a new (but still flat) tile roof was installed, along with window/doors etc.

The survey has thrown up the fact is has single skin, but that the internal insulation should restrict the heat loss.

My main concern really is, should the vendors have obtained building regs for this conversion? Does converting an existing space require this?

Floor plan is shown below, kitchen used to be in the 'breakfast room'.

PiKe · 2 Dec 2013 at 16:18

How entirely pointless the breakfast room is, could you knock the walls down and make it all open plan?

Mr.Stu · 2 Dec 2013 at 16:32

PiKe said:
How entirely pointless the breakfast room is, could you knock the walls down and make it all open plan?

Whilst I agree, that's not a deal breaker. If I've got to knock the kitchen down and start again that is!

The wall between the two is double skinned exterior of the main house, so taking a corner out of that I would assume is a major piece of work. Probably easier to make the dining room bigger.

Firestar_3x · 2 Dec 2013 at 16:34

I'd ditch the breakfast room, and remove the house to garage door then redesign the kitchen with a utility if possible.

A single skinned room would put me off, i'd want to know how well insulated it was and how much heating it required.

Mr.Stu · 2 Dec 2013 at 16:38

If we can ignore the fact its not the best use of space, I'm just trying to understand if the original kitchen move would have required any sort of planning permission or building regs etc.

Current owners say the underfloor heating in the kitchen is sufficient, but clearly they wouldn't say otherwise!

Nightglow · 2 Dec 2013 at 17:52

A kitchen is a 'Habitable Room' (a room used, or intended to be used, for dwelling purposes) ,& therefore is covered by building regulations.

That space was converted, & most likely wasn't done to building regulation standard & it would also require planning approval under the Building Regulations.

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/garageconversion/

First I would get rid of breakfast room, then gut the kitchen & build a inner skin with 100mm concrete block with cavity,will be easy to tie it all in to existing outer skin.

ci_newman · 2 Dec 2013 at 19:42

To answer your question, yes that would need planning permission.

Mr.Stu · 2 Dec 2013 at 21:48

ci_newman said:
To answer your question, yes that would need planning permission.

What makes you think this would not be covered under permitted development rights? Thanks.

Morpho · 2 Dec 2013 at 22:12

If the sunroom had planning permission then it shouldn't be needed to convert it to a kitchen.

Mr.Stu · 2 Dec 2013 at 22:31

Sunroom was part of original build in the 1930s... original brick walls still there. Used to have a glass roof.

When converted to kitchen they changed the roof, added new doors, insulated and re-plastered the internal walls.

Vendor claims planning permission was not required, I'm inclined to agree.

Still not sure on the building regs. Converting an existing room for kitchen use seems to be a bit of a grey area on the requirement for building regs.

Nightglow · 2 Dec 2013 at 22:36

Morpho said:
If the sunroom had planning permission then it shouldn't be needed to convert it to a kitchen.

A sun room is a permitted development, & since about 2008 doesn't require planning permission, providing it doesn't exceed a certain area size.

They are not required to meet any any building regulations, other than glazing,roofing & certain doors were required between them & the house.

Mr.Stu · 2 Dec 2013 at 22:44

Nightglow said:
A sun room is a permitted development, & since about 2008 doesn't require planning permission, providing it doesn't exceed a certain area size.

They are not required to meet any any building regulations, other than glazing,roofing & certain doors were required between them & the house.

See additional info above.

Sunroom was part of original build.

Nightglow · 2 Dec 2013 at 22:57

Yes, I read that, if the sunroom didn't haven't heating orginally, then it couldn't be used all the year round, & therefore it was not ' A Habitable Room.

The sunroom has now been converted to a habitable room, & it should then meet current building regulations at the time it was converted, & had planning permission for the changed of use..

Mr.Stu · 2 Dec 2013 at 23:16

Nightglow said:
had planning permission for the changed of use..

Is it a black and white case of if you convert a non-habitable space (garage/sunroom/etc) to habitable then you need planning permission?

This would suggest not - http://www.ourproperty.co.uk/guides/converting_your_garage.html

"Planning permission - You usually only need to apply for planning permission to convert a garage when you intend to extend the actual size of the garage. However, check with your local authority as the precise rules do differ."

borich_planner · 3 Dec 2013 at 12:13

Planning permission to convert a garage into a habitable room is only required when there is a condition requiring that the garage should be used for the parking of a motor vehicle. Without that condition permisison would not be required. Building Regulations are another matter.

I am a LPA Planner and deal with 20/30 garage conversions a year. Hope this helps.

Burned_Alive · 3 Dec 2013 at 12:49

We bought a house with a very similar extension. Kitchen became the breakfast room and the new bigger kitchen was added onto the side/back in the same position. It was deemed that no planning permission was required however it would've been subject to building regulations. As the owners couldnt provide any proof of building inspection (extension was done in the 70s/80s) we ended up taking out indemnity insurance to cover ourselves in the event of any issues.

Mr.Stu · 3 Dec 2013 at 13:15

Latest on this.

Council have said work of this kind would not have required planning permission (I'm still interested to hear why Nightglow and ci_newman think it is... it's entirely possible the council are incompetent).

Obviously requires building regs as everyone has said, vendor did not originally get this done so now chatting to council about getting this retrospectively regulated (Warren G?).

Don't fancy going down the indemnity route unless I get significant discount on the asking price. In fact, once the vendor speaks to the council about retrospective regs, I don't think you can even get the insurance.

borich_planner · 3 Dec 2013 at 14:40

Mr Stu the only time converting a garage into a habitable room requires planning permission if there is a planning condition associated with the garage.

Maccapacca · 3 Dec 2013 at 15:12

I really don't understand what your issue is, so what if it's not up to current building regs?

Mr.Stu · 3 Dec 2013 at 15:27

Solicitor has told me that if it was converted in 2009, and not signed off with building regs then it can't be classified as a habitable room. Therefore should not be advertised with one and may have issues with the lender and mortgage. Similar to when a house has a loft conversion without building regs and it can't be advertised as an extra bedroom.

Buying a house with kitchen 'extension'

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