Nelson Mandela has died
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Caporegime
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I think the minutes silence before the premier league matches this weekend is a bad idea.
It will not be respected by a great number of fans, and quite frankly, I don't blame them.
I agree with Deuse as well. There will undoubtedly be a concert, and we will be force fed yet more narcissistic crap from the likes of Bono and Bob Geldof.
It will not be respected by a great number of fans, and quite frankly, I don't blame them.
I agree with Deuse as well. There will undoubtedly be a concert, and we will be force fed yet more narcissistic crap from the likes of Bono and Bob Geldof.
Associate
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He achieved a lot of good. Did the ends justify the means? I'm not sure any of us are really qualified to comment.
I do remember apartheid South Africa and can't help but think what he did was terrible but necessary.
I do remember apartheid South Africa and can't help but think what he did was terrible but necessary.
Wow so many narrow minded people calling him a terrorist, I guess this is the right wing stronghold of GD
..aaaaaannd the lefties all collectively choose to ignore the fact that he was a murderer and decide wholeheartedly to kiss his arse because they are stupid, wishy-washy and limp-wristed.
Caporegime
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No one denied what he did, but people also forget what lead him there and how bad things were for blacks.
What happened subsequently is that when he came out, he forgave everyone, he forgave the people that treated blacks badly, he forgave the Apartheid who created all those laws that made blacks a second class citizen, he forgave those that put him in prison (although he did commit those crimes so in effect, by the letter of the law, it was just and I am not arguing it was right to kill innocents).
However, he was freed. The government and its people thought that he had both served his time in prison and that what he did was for the right cause.
They forgave him. He then forgave them and the world also forgave him for what he did too.
It is the thing, if nothing else that we can learn from, is forgiveness.
When he was freed, he called for whites and blacks to resolve their differences, and more or less, it has. South Africa is not what it was 50 years ago. The country is better for it, its people are better for it. It is by more or large, the influence and result of Mandela himself. I am sure someone else would have come along and done the same thing if it wasn't for him but it was him. He also did it (when he was freed) in a peaceful way, by election. One can argue he had learned his lesson after 27 years in prison.
Was he perfect? No.
Is he a saint? No.
Do I think the world is a better place now? I do.
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If you're going to copy/paste something, you should at least have the decency to provide the source. Which is here.
The article claims:
The author offers no evidence to support this, nor does he specify which trial is referred to here.
At Mandela's first trial he was charged with treason. It lasted 6 years and he pleaded not guilty. The judges' final verdict: not guilty.
At Mandela's second trial he was charged with inciting workers' strikes and leaving the country without permission. He pleaded mitigation. The judges' verdict: guilty.
At Mandela's third trial he was charged with sabotage and conspiracy to violently overthrow the government. He pleaded guilty to sabotage but not guilty to planning violent insurrection. The judges' verdict: guilty.
Mandela remained in prison for the next 25 years. The ANC and MK continued under new leadership. Mandela was not responsible for any terrorist activities carried out by the ANC or affiliated organisations during this time; he had no authority or capacity to direct such activities, even if he'd wanted to
I cannot find any reputable source which proves that Mandela ever pleaded guilty to '156 acts of public violence including mobilising terrorist bombing campaigns, which planted bombs in public places, including the Johannesburg railway station.' Not one.
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Not sure if serious or just a troll.
I don't remember though anyone in this thread saying or even suggesting he wasn't involved in killings. Yes there are those who are ignorant of what happened and what he did but you cannot judge a man by what he did during a specific time. To take balance of his life you must look at it in its entirity in which case you have to account for the good and the bad. The debate really is due to a difference of opinion on whether the good outweighed the bad as we can never know truely what the outcome would have been had he not been involved in the bombings.
As it apparently is only the lefties "who ignore the fact he was a murderer and decide wholeheartedly to kiss his arse because they are stupid, wishy-washy and limp-wristed" Does that mean you run around on armistice day calling all the veterans killers?
Associate
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As apparently you can't judge a man for something he did during a specific time (a nonsense phrase by the way) do you advocate pardoning every crime because we need to account for the good and the bad someone did before passing judgement?
That's not the debate at all. The debate is, should we be lauding a killer and terrorist. Some people are desperate to defend Mandela for some obscure reason (I suspect it's guilt for being secretly racist, but I could be wrong as I haven't put much thought into it) and some people think he's a murdering loony. Some people don't give a monkey's.
Why are you so eager to defend someone like him?
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You are supposed a judge a person by the weight of all of what they did, taking into account the motivations behind those actions.
You are the one who is ignored half of the story because you have a chip in your shoulder.
Do you believe the bombing of cities or the use of drone strikes which result in civilian casualties as being acceptable forms of killing?, is it just when somebody you don't like does it - is it then a problem?.
Do you apply this logic to other methods of killing? (I'm not expecting a reply to this, just highlight that you lack the ability to defend your position).
You live in a fantasy world.
Seems a recurring pattern.
Associate
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A chip "in" my shoulder? Idiot.
I don't get involved in sad, line by line rebuttals, as you well know because you seem to have a hard on for me and respond to me in every thread I post in.
did he have weird sized feet?
Soldato
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If that's the sum total of your counter argument I think you are the one who is quite clearly the idiot
If that's the sum total of your counter argument I think you are the one who is quite clearly the idiot
He's just living up to a misspelling of his username.
Associate
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If that's the sum total of your counter argument I think you are the one who is quite clearly the idiot
Quite clearly if you were able to get past your butthurt from earlier you would notice that I said that I wasn't responding to the argument. Ergo, there was no counter argument.
Soldato
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Errrr?...... No butthurt here pal, it's all in your head, just as the imaginary world that you seem to inhabit is; you know the one where you don't lack the intelligence and eloquence to present your counter arguments instead of jumping up and down, name calling and claiming you won't produce a response because you are somehow better.
You carry on hiding away behind your self convinced lie but you are very transparent
Errrr?...... No butthurt here pal, it's all in your head, just as the imaginary world that you seem to inhabit is; you know the one where you don't lack the intelligence and eloquence to present your counter arguments instead of jumping up and down, name calling and claiming you won't produce a response because you are somehow better.
You carry on hiding away behind your self convinced lie but you are very transparent
