At what age did you parents introduce you to the other religions, or did they just teach you their religion? Did they take you to synagogues and mosques as well as church?
Girlfriend is religious, I'm atheist.. Can this work?
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At what age did you parents introduce you to the other religions, or did they just teach you their religion? Did they take you to synagogues and mosques as well as church?
Man of Honour
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Just like vegetarians and non vegetarians living together. Perfectly easy to do with a little bit of give and take. Eh SPW 
Quite, and I have no doubt that those who coined the phrase were themselves Christians... It's almost insulting to other religions, as if Christian values are somehow better, and we allow this in our multicultural society? 'Good values' or 'decent values' would work just fine.
To answer the OP... If my girlfriend wanted to teach my child to be Christian, I'd want the child to be taught just as much about all the other religions at the same age, so they could truly decide for themselves. I imagine though, if she was Christian, she might have a problem with that.
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Please don't read below if easily offended, religious opinions expressed
I'm looking to hopefully get some unbiased input on this.. I'm an atheist, as I suspect many of you guys are too, but would appreciate views from different beliefs/cultures too if possible!
Imagine the scenario: You're atheist. Your girlfriend is a Roman Catholic. You've been together for two years, and it may soon be time for a baby. However, your girlfriend is concerned about your beliefs, or lack of. You respect her choices and beliefs, but can't quite understand religion, and can't accept it, due to it being completely illogical! (In your view..) You believe in science!She would want any child she has brought up with religious views, going to church on a regular basis, and brought up with the 'correct' beliefs, ideals, morals, etc..
My view on the situation is that, although being based around good principles, religion is kind of a guilt trip, and you don't need God, and the threat of burning in hell etc. to be a good person.
Her view is that having two parents that don't believe could be a deal-breaker... Even if I were to concede and agree to go to church and what-not, but still not believing and remaining atheist, it wouldn't be enough.
What is your opinion?
If you don't believe in the same stuff she does then that shouldn't effect the relationship really unless you get really hooked up on people being religious of she was to force you to follow her rules.
Having a child on the other hand would be a different matter unless you couldn't care less if the child was being raised under a Christian environment. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest as I'm sure the child can make their own decision when they grow up and in the earlier years going to church and following the beliefs is good for socialising and putting them on the right track for society.
But everyone will have their own opinions. My overall thought is for the relationship it won't be an issue and for the child it will be something you would want to think about. All that said is if the both parties of the relationship are mature and respect each others life choices
Just like vegetarians and non vegetarians living together. Perfectly easy to do with a little bit of give and take. Eh SPW
"My girlfreinds a vegetarian, so that pretty much makes me a vegetarian. But I do love the taste of a good burger."
Man of Honour
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How is it stating that it is better than other religions? It's just a saying, which encompasses certain good values that make us civilised rather than animals.
I don't see how it is demeaning to others?
Indeed, these are basic rules to live in a cohesive & functional society.
This pre-dates any traditional religion, many of which created a number of imaginary/bigoted crimes along with a list of punishments for them (such as mistreating homosexuals, or burning witches etc).
Religions are just another way of interpreting & labelling our evolved ethics, not the source.
Maybe it's just me but it seems to imply that Christian values are superior to other values... It implies that 'Jewish' values or 'Muslim' values do not encompass those certain good values that make us civilised rather than animals.
This isn't a Christian country anymore, not really anyway. Wouldn't it be better to just say 'good values' if that's what's meant?
I don't suppose there are any people of other religions reading this? I'd be interested to know what you think when you hear or read 'Christian' values.
Indeed... I'd class those as Christian values, personally.
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SkodaMart
SkodaMart
There are degrees of religiousness, many people call themselves Christians but only attend Church at Christmas , Easter, weddings and funerals, etc.
I think an Atheist could survive in this type of partnership.
However there are full on extreme religious nuts! And being an atheist in this type of family would cause friction from day one!
I find the religious family in the video strangely comforting, the atheist dating the girl does indeed appear to be a 'lost lamb'
I am an atheist, my family is religious. My beliefs offend my mother, but nothing is said.
I think an Atheist could survive in this type of partnership.
However there are full on extreme religious nuts! And being an atheist in this type of family would cause friction from day one!
I find the religious family in the video strangely comforting, the atheist dating the girl does indeed appear to be a 'lost lamb'
I am an atheist, my family is religious. My beliefs offend my mother, but nothing is said.
Sounds familiar.
Most of my elder family are religious, but neither me or my brothers hold any beliefs in particular.
It's an unspoken thing, but we are respectful to them - but don't pretend either (It's not any easy line to walk, retaining honesty of view without being offensive).
When you say it I know what you mean, simply as shorthand for 'good values'.
But many others of many beliefs use the term in a religious centric sense (who imply being religious is a requirement for being good) - or try to lay claim to 'moral goodness' & all ethical behaviour.
Not that that attitude is really that popular in the UK, it's more of a fundamentalist religious thing (unlike many in the UK who hold a far more progressive & sophisticated religious view).
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In my eyes it's easily workable provided there's respect on both sides. From what you've said, OP, your partner isn't sure how things may work out but that doesn't mean you're already at a dead-end. You need to speak with her again, but this time try to just listen. We men love to jump in with logic, point out where there is something 'wrong' and to 'fix' things when women have a problem. Thing is, that's not how women work.
It seems to me that if she's been living 'in sin' with you for over two years, she's more than amenable in her beliefs and is simply worried about the course of the relationship should contentious issues arise with any children's upbringing. She clearly loves you to make such 'sacrifices' (sinning with you in the eyes of her faith), so maybe you just need to hear her out and find out exactly what it is that's worrying her.
Don't react, don't get angry and there's no reason you can't have a perfectly good discussion. It sounds to me from the OP that things got emotionally heated between you before any real discussion took place. Just make sure you expect the same from her in return. Once you know where she stands, it's perfectly reasonable to expect her to listen to you in the same way and come to a compromise or at least a fair exchange of ideas in which you both know where you stand. Don't expect instant resolution, but do expect to at least get things out in the open without making things awkward between you.
Only you know your girlfriend and your relationship, OP, but religion is not and should not be the be-all in a relationship. My mum is a lapsed Catholic and my dad's an atheist. I went to Sunday school/church groups and a CofE school, and I was self-decided atheist by the time I was 8. Then as I got older I made my own choices. Now I am a minister and my fiancee is also religious but her ('our') seven year old gets told nothing of religious matters, aside from being in a Catholic school due to its academic record and proximity. He never goes to church and lives an essentially religion-free life aside from the usual cultural associations (Easter, Christmas, school stuff etc).
If someone dies he's told that they're now "in heaven" simply to save his immature conscience and worry, but no more than that gets said. He'll make his own mind up when he's older. If two religious parents can do this, surely a mixed-belief couple can manage? You need to ensure your relationship is on the foundation is ought to be, and come to some kind of common ground with your partner. Chances are if she's already broken several covenants of her faith for you she's not about to split up over whether dad comes to church more often than the kids' christenings.... There's no reason you can't continue to enjoy a functional and healthy relationship any more than if you supported different football teams. If she was a raving fundamentalist then I'd say it differently, but if you've stuck around for two years chances are you're otherwise pretty well suited.
Also bear in mind that as a Catholic (even if a 'flexible' one), she may find it eases her conscience to be married before the children arrive.... Just something to think about and which may actually be influencing her stance in this conversation, and which you've simply not thought about due to your atheism. Having married parents (even if one is atheistic) may be the solidity she is seeking. But again only you know your relationship and your partner. Good luck!
It seems to me that if she's been living 'in sin' with you for over two years, she's more than amenable in her beliefs and is simply worried about the course of the relationship should contentious issues arise with any children's upbringing. She clearly loves you to make such 'sacrifices' (sinning with you in the eyes of her faith), so maybe you just need to hear her out and find out exactly what it is that's worrying her.
Don't react, don't get angry and there's no reason you can't have a perfectly good discussion. It sounds to me from the OP that things got emotionally heated between you before any real discussion took place. Just make sure you expect the same from her in return. Once you know where she stands, it's perfectly reasonable to expect her to listen to you in the same way and come to a compromise or at least a fair exchange of ideas in which you both know where you stand. Don't expect instant resolution, but do expect to at least get things out in the open without making things awkward between you.
Only you know your girlfriend and your relationship, OP, but religion is not and should not be the be-all in a relationship. My mum is a lapsed Catholic and my dad's an atheist. I went to Sunday school/church groups and a CofE school, and I was self-decided atheist by the time I was 8. Then as I got older I made my own choices. Now I am a minister and my fiancee is also religious but her ('our') seven year old gets told nothing of religious matters, aside from being in a Catholic school due to its academic record and proximity. He never goes to church and lives an essentially religion-free life aside from the usual cultural associations (Easter, Christmas, school stuff etc).
If someone dies he's told that they're now "in heaven" simply to save his immature conscience and worry, but no more than that gets said. He'll make his own mind up when he's older. If two religious parents can do this, surely a mixed-belief couple can manage? You need to ensure your relationship is on the foundation is ought to be, and come to some kind of common ground with your partner. Chances are if she's already broken several covenants of her faith for you she's not about to split up over whether dad comes to church more often than the kids' christenings.... There's no reason you can't continue to enjoy a functional and healthy relationship any more than if you supported different football teams. If she was a raving fundamentalist then I'd say it differently, but if you've stuck around for two years chances are you're otherwise pretty well suited.
Also bear in mind that as a Catholic (even if a 'flexible' one), she may find it eases her conscience to be married before the children arrive.... Just something to think about and which may actually be influencing her stance in this conversation, and which you've simply not thought about due to your atheism. Having married parents (even if one is atheistic) may be the solidity she is seeking. But again only you know your relationship and your partner. Good luck!
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Everybody has different values though - and we still are predominantly a Christian country with around 60% choosing that in the 2011 census. With about 20% stating no religion and another 7% who didn't answer the question.
so it's still a very big part of the UK.
Well I think that's a little myopic, as it's got nothing to do with bigotry and all to do with compassion, forgiveness, patience, empathy, and the list goes on....
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In my eyes it's easily workable provided there's respect on both sides. From what you've said, OP, your partner isn't sure how things may work out but that doesn't mean you're already at a dead-end. You need to speak with her again, but this time try to just listen. We men love to jump in with logic, point out where there is something 'wrong' and to 'fix' things when women have a problem. Thing is, that's not how women work.
It seems to me that if she's been living 'in sin' with you for over two years, she's more than amenable in her beliefs and is simply worried about the course of the relationship should contentious issues arise with any children's upbringing. She clearly loves you to make such 'sacrifices' (sinning with you in the eyes of her faith), so maybe you just need to hear her out and find out exactly what it is that's worrying her.
Don't react, don't get angry and there's no reason you can't have a perfectly good discussion. It sounds to me from the OP that things got emotionally heated between you before any real discussion took place. Just make sure you expect the same from her in return. Once you know where she stands, it's perfectly reasonable to expect her to listen to you in the same way and come to a compromise or at least a fair exchange of ideas in which you both know where you stand. Don't expect instant resolution, but do expect to at least get things out in the open without making things awkward between you.
Only you know your girlfriend and your relationship, OP, but religion is not and should not be the be-all in a relationship. My mum is a lapsed Catholic and my dad's an atheist. I went to Sunday school/church groups and a CofE school, and I was self-decided atheist by the time I was 8. Then as I got older I made my own choices. Now I am a minister and my fiancee is also religious but her ('our') seven year old gets told nothing of religious matters, aside from being in a Catholic school due to its academic record and proximity. He never goes to church and lives an essentially religion-free life aside from the usual cultural associations (Easter, Christmas, school stuff etc).
If someone dies he's told that they're now "in heaven" simply to save his immature conscience and worry, but no more than that gets said. He'll make his own mind up when he's older. If two religious parents can do this, surely a mixed-belief couple can manage? You need to ensure your relationship is on the foundation is ought to be, and come to some kind of common ground with your partner. Chances are if she's already broken several covenants of her faith for you she's not about to split up over whether dad comes to church more often than the kids' christenings.... There's no reason you can't continue to enjoy a functional and healthy relationship any more than if you supported different football teams. If she was a raving fundamentalist then I'd say it differently, but if you've stuck around for two years chances are you're otherwise pretty well suited.
Also bear in mind that as a Catholic (even if a 'flexible' one), she may find it eases her conscience to be married before the children arrive.... Just something to think about and which may actually be influencing her stance in this conversation, and which you've simply not thought about due to your atheism. Having married parents (even if one is atheistic) may be the solidity she is seeking. But again only you know your relationship and your partner. Good luck!
Nice post and great to see you posting here, I've been meaning to email you for ages
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I don't think going to a catholic school or going to church would be a bad thing. I beleive that a child is smart enough to figure out for him or herself what he believes in when it is old enough.
I went to a really strict catholic school but I never bought into any of the teachings. My morality and sense of right and wrong comes from day to day life, my parents and in some way, television and movies and they are littered with what is right and wrong, I mean just watch Quantum Leap !
I went to a really strict catholic school but I never bought into any of the teachings. My morality and sense of right and wrong comes from day to day life, my parents and in some way, television and movies and they are littered with what is right and wrong, I mean just watch Quantum Leap !
Nice post and great to see you posting here, I've been meaning to email you for ages
Likewise my friend, alas life seems to keep getting in the way these days.
I'm still around I just don't post much. We're getting married in May '14 and I'm keeping busy travelling but it'd be great to touch base again. My new email is in Trust (I still check the old one but don't use it as my daily). Be good to hear from you again. Indeed, but ultimately we're a multicultural society.
But as I said originally, none of those things are specific to Christianity in any sense, they can be found in pretty much all cultures and they predate Christianity. Those good values have no more to do with Christianity than they do with Islam.
Personally, it makes more sense for 'Christian' values to actually mean values that are specific to Christianity... Not just general good values that existed in most cultures and societies long before Christianity...
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Just like vegetarians and non vegetarians living together. Perfectly easy to do with a little bit of give and take. Eh SPW
Not sure that's a very good way of putting it. Living with a partner that is a vegetarian is so easy, it's a very small change to 1 element of your life, eating. Where as religion can cover many elements of ones life.
Of course.
Many religions, cultures & groups share these good values - including many good Christians (who discard the bad & live very ethical lives).
As I mentioned earlier, I'd wager it's more directed at those who seek to claim these values as being exclusively within the domain of their particular group/religion (which some do).
There are still many people who think that people who lack a belief in a god are evil or worship Satan remember (thankfully very few in the UK), when in reality - philanthropists exist across all social groups, religious or otherwise.
On the subject of religious education, my personal gripe is that a child is often taught in religious schools - one viewpoint (as a matter of fact) before they are old enough cognitively to question the truth value of a given claim.
A child should be taught facts very differently to beliefs - the problem is when the lines are blurred (by a strong religious education) - science lessons will say, never teach that god doesn't exist (it has nothing to say on the subject), it simply teaches what we do know.
A religious education can sometimes teach some beliefs as fact, which we do not know are certain collectively (as they are a matter of faith - which is a personal thing, not something which should be taught to impressionable children before they are equipped to question it).
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Man of Honour
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On that I agree 100% and embrace it - I think it's a great thing.
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I think religious education is really important for children to understand all the different cultures/values and morals that are taught, and how things are perceived by different cultures. I don't think it's a bad thing that children are brought up with their parent's faith - as we have seen from this thread a lot of people were brought up in such environments and have either moved over to different beliefs or just shunned them altogether. My uncle for example was Christened Greek Orthodox like me, this is very spiritual, passionate and over the top in many respects, however, it also embedded in culture in that part of the world - people wear a cross, and cross themselves when something bad happens out of instinct and upbringing rather than a hard thought out action.
anyway, he couldn't deal with all the "fasaries" (Greek meaning "fuss" basically), and has turned to Buddhism and enjoys that guidance/meaning/spirituality a lot more - it's less OTT and always better integration to his modern lifestyle.
I embrace all beliefs - I just don't like people's beliefs being shunned, insulted or people antagonise others for being "weak of mind" because they like to share a moment of faith with themselves.