Alan Turing Granted Royal Pardon

Totally disagree with this pardon.

It doesn't change or correct what was done to one of our great war heroes - it's just a publicity stunt.

Turing's mistreatment and death is a terrible set of events which should be a collective guilt carried forward as a painful lesson to the future on where discrimination and persecution takes us.

A pardon may make us feel better about past injustice, but it achieves little else.
 
A pardon says ”you're guilty but we forgive you", which just seems like they are trying to whitewash the issue. The law was wrong but the conviction was a reminder of how cruel and persecutory society and it's laws can be. I might think differently if this had been for all people convicted under the law.
 
It wasn't wrong to treat them that way based on the morality of the day though. Should we start rewriting our history books based on modern laws, customs and morals?

No not at all. In the same way that we shouldn't try and rewrite the issue of slavery. It's important that these events are remembered for what they were and used to learn from as a contrast to today's society. At the time, the punishment that Turing suffered fit the crime - the fact that we can now look back on that and recognise that not only was the punishment wrong but the 'crime' as well can only be a good thing. I think this pardon just acknowledges that.
 
I have commented on this before, when mutterings about "Pardons" first reared their heads! To reiterate

Should he have been “Pardoned”?

Well, No. And here’s why not!

The Alan Turing story tends to be told as if to imply that he was somehow the victim of a brutal state machine persecuting him for attempting to lead a normal life within his own natural genetic preferences.

This is really not what happened.

Firstly, the idea that either the security services or his colleges were unaware of his homosexuality or that his disgrace came as a result of some sudden discovery by the authorities is frankly risible! Of course they knew! Did anybody care?? No

Alan Turing’s “fall from grace” began when he (at the age of 40) picked up an anonymous teenager outside a Hotel..

After a number of “Brief encounters” he invited this youth back to his home. Subsequently the youth, along with an accomplice attempted to burgle Mr Turing’s home.

At this point he reported it to the Police. During the course of this investigation Mr Turing admitted to the Police that Homosexual acts had taken place.

Now, for starters, even by modern standards this represents pretty perverted behaviour (I would imagine many if not most people would regard a Middle aged Man who went around picking up teenage Girls off street corners for sex as a pervert too, even today! The Homosexuality aspect is just the icing on the cake!!). Added to which, the police could hardly brush the issue aside. Any more than they could if somebody complained that their next-door neighbours 14-year-old daughter and boyfriend had attempted to burgle his house. Oh, and by the way, he had had sex with her the previous week!

He wasn’t “Persecuted” He volunteered the admission (Probably thinking he was Soooo important that they would just ignore it). He offered no defence at his trial and the judge therefore had little option other than to apply the Law as it stood!

I am sure his handlers might well have wanted to sweep it all under the carpet but for the fact that by now too many civilian authorities were involved to be able to do so. Also there is another factor. Likely rather more important to the security services!

If we add in the fact that this was a man involved in top secret military research with a high level security clearance who had let a complete stranger of doubtful provenance into his home then the shear scale of his irresponsibility and the betrayal of the trust of his colleagues for the sake of a bit of self indulgent self gratification becomes apparent.

Of Course, anyone displaying this scale of poor judgement and lack of self-control should lose his job and security clearance. Anybody today who got into a similar mess through associating with prostitutes should be treated the same way. This isn’t a “Gay Rights” issue. It is a “Being a bloody idiot” issue!


Should Turing be remembered as a brilliant mathematician who helped to lay the foundations of a new technology?-Yes

Should he be remembered as someone who helped this country defeat the Germans?-yes

Should we have sympathy for somebody whose personal issues clearly went Waaay beyond simply being a homosexual in 1950’ Britain-Yes Too!

Should he be held up as a “Cause Celebre” for Gay Rights?

Well No, Not unless Gays forever wish to be associated with seedy middle aged men picking up rent boys for bum-sex! Being an exceptionally clever seedy middle aged Man doesn’t make him any less seedy!
 
No not at all. In the same way that we shouldn't try and rewrite the issue of slavery. It's important that these events are remembered for what they were and used to learn from as a contrast to today's society. At the time, the punishment that Turing suffered fit the crime - the fact that we can now look back on that and recognise that not only was the punishment wrong but the 'crime' as well can only be a good thing. I think this pardon just acknowledges that.

I don't look back and recognise that the punishment was wrong, it was entirely correct for the time. I recognise that he'd not be given such a punishment today, but what is the point in recognising that? It's just pointless pandering to minorities and their progressive bourgeois allies.
 
Well No, Not unless Gays forever wish to be associated with seedy middle aged men picking up rent boys for bum-sex! Being an exceptionally clever seedy middle aged Man doesn’t make him any less seedy!

Excellent and thought provoking post. But I doubt you'll gain any traction with the progressive sorts, as they consider this sort of behaviour entirely acceptable and even worthy of boasting about.
 
Alan Turing’s “fall from grace” began when he (at the age of 40) picked up an anonymous teenager outside a Hotel..

After a number of “Brief encounters” he invited this youth back to his home. Subsequently the youth, along with an accomplice attempted to burgle Mr Turing’s home.

At this point he reported it to the Police. During the course of this investigation Mr Turing admitted to the Police that Homosexual acts had taken place.

Now, for starters, even by modern standards this represents pretty perverted behaviour (I would imagine many if not most people would regard a Middle aged Man who went around picking up teenage Girls off street corners for sex as a pervert too, even today! The Homosexuality aspect is just the icing on the cake!!).

You've sensationalised this story to the point of it becoming a charicature. The 'youth' you refer to was 19, hardly an indecent age. What you describe as 'Brief Encounters' other people would refer to simply as 'dates'.

I'm not sure at all what you mean by:

The Homosexuality aspect is just the icing on the cake!!

That just sounds like homophobia no?

The equating of Turing to a 'middle aged man who went around picking up teenage girls off street corners' is exaggerated and you provide no evidence for this as a routine behaviour or it being an exploitative behaviour given that the man he was seeing was 19.

Was Turing naive in trusting this man? Perhaps. Is there any evidence he jeopardised national security? Not as far as I'm aware.

His pardon is justified but it would be nice if all the other criminalised gays were also pardoned.
 
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The equating of Turing to a 'middle aged man who went around picking up teenage girls off street corners' is exaggerated and you provide no evidence for this as a routine behaviour or it being an exploitative behaviour given that the man he was seeing was 19.

I'd prefer my national heroes to not shag dirty homeless friends of burglars.
 
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I'd prefer my national heroes to not shag dirty prostitutes.

I've just checked wiki and it says this:

In January 1952, Turing started a relationship with Arnold Murray, a 19-year-old unemployed man. Turing met Murray just before Christmas outside the Regal Cinema when walking down Manchester's Oxford Road and had invited him to lunch. On 23 January Turing's house was burgled. Murray told Turing that the burglar was an acquaintance of his, and Turing reported the crime to the police. During the investigation he acknowledged a sexual relationship with Murray. Homosexual acts were criminal offences in the United Kingdom at that time,[92] and both men were charged with gross indecency under Section 11 of the Criminal Law Amendment Act 18

I couldn't find anything that implied Arnold Murray was a prostitute. Where did this notion come from ?
 
So Mr Turing liked young 19 year old blokes with firm skin and tight bottoms compared to and old saggy blokes who's balls drag on the floor? big deal, change "blokes" to "women" and "balls" to "titties" it doesn't sound bad now.

The only crime the fellow is guilty of was being alive and gay in the 1950s and now he has been pardoned for that so move on.
 
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