780ti's or 290x's for 1440p?

[LtMatt]

As title really, planning on getting a new PC and might watercool it also. Primary game would be BF4 so mantle interests me, but would I see any major difference between 2 of each card?

But is mantle going to change that? That's what worries me as I'd hate to splash the cash on two ti's and then see mantle change the field of play lol.

I have seen a couple of people saying it would be foolish to go anything other than AMD (their opinion, so cool) but this is the way I look at it:

1440P SLI 780 should get around >100fps. You have a 60Hz 1440P monitor (I assume) and even with 290X in CF getting 200 fps let's say, you are never going to notice anything different between the 2 systems on your 1440P. They will both look the same.

Now I would like to think you play other games as well, so when you look at AMD Vs nVidia in general, nVidia have proprietary tech that AMD users can't use. PhysX adds some very nice effects to games where it is used and for me, these are effects that make the game look better and adds that little extra smile factor that AMD users are missing out on. GameWorks has been hotly debated recently and some of the AMD users are not happy that AMD can't optimize games with this tech in. FlameWorks/Flex/PhysX/TXAA are all things that are nVidia controlled and nVidia users get the best of. Batman games all look great with PhysX, Metro LL another, Borderlands 2 effects are awesome to name but a couple and then you have games like Project CARS and Star Citizen to look forward to with PhysX being used.

Just my thoughts anyway.

I based my reply on what he asked for. Others should really be doing that as well. If he wants to experience the best performance on BF4, the best minimums, the smoothest performance, the best frame times, + Mantle and all the benefits that will bring on top, he needs an AMD card or two.

If he's suggested elsewhere that he wants other features like physx smoke and all those other unreleased features you mentioned then i must have missed it. I think perhaps people are using their biased opinions to form a recommendation rather than suggesting something that will benefit what the OP has actually asked for/requested.

 

[Silent_Scone]

Physx had cloth effects before it had smoke, but thanks for the narky reply.

Also Mantle is an 'unreleased feature'. It's also a little silly to base an expensive GPU purchase on one title, frankly. Honestly though I think that goes without saying.

Also if we're being frank about it, R290s still have a larger than widely accepted failure rate. So that's also worth taking into account.

 

[uksoldierboy]

I have seen a couple of people saying it would be foolish to go anything other than AMD (their opinion, so cool) but this is the way I look at it:

1440P SLI 780 should get around >100fps. You have a 60Hz 1440P monitor (I assume) and even with 290X in CF getting 200 fps let's say, you are never going to notice anything different between the 2 systems on your 1440P. They will both look the same.

Now I would like to think you play other games as well, so when you look at AMD Vs nVidia in general, nVidia have proprietary tech that AMD users can't use. PhysX adds some very nice effects to games where it is used and for me, these are effects that make the game look better and adds that little extra smile factor that AMD users are missing out on. GameWorks has been hotly debated recently and some of the AMD users are not happy that AMD can't optimize games with this tech in. FlameWorks/Flex/PhysX/TXAA are all things that are nVidia controlled and nVidia users get the best of. Batman games all look great with PhysX, Metro LL another, Borderlands 2 effects are awesome to name but a couple and then you have games like Project CARS and Star Citizen to look forward to with PhysX being used.

Just my thoughts anyway.

I agree Greg, i guess it all comes down to what games your looking at playing and with what extras (Mantle vs Gameworks, PhysX etc, at 1440P neither setup is going to break a sweat.

If he's looking just at BF4 as a main game, i'd go AMD all day though

 

[LtMatt]

Also Mantle is an 'unreleased feature'. It's also a little silly to base an expensive GPU purchase on one title, frankly. Honestly though I think that goes without saying.

Also if we're being frank about it, R290s still have a larger than widely accepted failure rate. So that's also worth taking into account.

Why? That's going to be his main game and he wants to try Mantle. Its makes completely perfect sense to me. In fact buying a gpu for games or features you won't use nor are interested is more than a little silly in my opinion.

While we're being frank he should also consider that Nvidia drivers do sometimes kill graphics cards. Its happened more than a few times already. So that's also worth taking into account.

If he's looking just at BF4 as a main game, i'd go AMD all day though

From the horses mouth.

 

[Rusty0611]

Why? That's going to be his main game and he wants to try Mantle. Its makes completely perfect sense to me. In fact buying a gpu for games or features you won't use nor are interested is more than a little silly in my opinion

Yes but if it was as clear cut as that he wouldn't have bothered asking the question of which card in the first place.

As I was discussing last night with TheRealDeal, Mantle isn't likely to add any real value to an overclocked dual card set up. It's also unknown at this stage.

Again, single card I would agree that it would be a massive pull but with the black screen issue still prevalent, personally, I couldn't recommend a 290/X when the benefits of Mantle will surely be somewhere between nothing and small in this scenario.

But I know that I'm in a minority on these forums by looking at things in a neutral point of view.

Feel free to make a recommendation yourself but to come in and try to talk down other people's reasoned recommendations isn't great form.

Edit: one benefit of the 290/X is the extra VRAM which with a dual overclocked set up you could end up in a situation in a year or so where you've got enough GPU muscle to push acceptable frames but not the VRAM to back it up with 3GB. Sorry forgot to mention this initially.

 

[Gregster]

Fair play guys. If his only game will be BF4, then for sure, a 290 or 290X (and hopefully not getting the black screen problems) or 2 would be wise but if he does play other things, then looking 'outside the box' isn't a bad shout surely.

 

[Ian Evey]

Hopefully nvidia and amd get an equal amount of games under thier belts as the mantle enhancement for GCN is only going to damage games development as a whole, IMO.

Obviously if buying now for only BF4 get an amd card.

 

[LtMatt]

Yes but if it was as clear cut as that he wouldn't have bothered asking the question of which card in the first place.

As I was discussing last night with TheRealDeal, Mantle isn't likely to add any real value to an overclocked dual card set up. It's also unknown at this stage.

Again, single card I would agree that it would be a massive pull but with the black screen issue still prevalent, personally, I couldn't recommend a 290/X when the benefits of Mantle will surely be somewhere between nothing and small in this scenario.

But I know that I'm in a majority on these forums by looking at things in a neutral point of view.

Feel free to make a recommendation yourself but to come in and try to talk down other people's reasoned recommendations isn't great form.

You can't make a prediction about Mantle performance and then say its an unknown. I will be testing exactly the difference when it launches so expect more on this to follow. Gives its effect on cpu performance, multi gpu scaling and a lot more i expect it could still offer some nice benefits, even for a multi gpu user. Better minimums, more efficient vram usage/usage in general. Taking away the need to overclock any part of the system. The point is if a person says that bf4 is their main game and they want to try mantle then it makes sense for him to have an amd gpu.

 

[uksoldierboy]

With the Difference between the two being over £300 (cheapest 290X CF and Ti SLi)

I'd be inclined to take the risk of having to RMA/DSR a 290X if he's unlucky enough to get blackscreens at stock.

Over £300 extra is a lot to pay for some fancy looking smoke when all you really want to do is shot the crap outa players online.

 

[hakank68]

i dont think no one has yet asked this question. Wouldnt one 780ti be enough for 1440p gaming? i would try it with one and if its not enough buy the second.

 

[LtMatt]

With the Difference between the two being over £300 (cheapest 290X CF and Ti SLi)

I'd be inclined to take the risk of having to RMA/DSR a 290X if he's unlucky enough to get blackscreens at stock.

Over £300 extra is a lot to pay for some fancy looking smoke when all you really want to do is shot the crap outa players online.

I'd just get 2x290 Pro's and sell the games that come with it. Will be as fast as 780TI SLI or marginally slower and cost £600 vs £1100.

 

[uksoldierboy]

I'd just get 2x290 Pro's and sell the games that come with it. Will be as fast as 780TI SLI or marginally slower and cost £600 vs £1100.

Most definitely pal, unbeatable Performance for the price!

 

[Rusty0611]

You can't make a prediction about Mantle performance and then say its an unknown. I will be testing exactly the difference when it launches so expect more on this to follow. Gives its effect on cpu performance, multi gpu scaling and a lot more i expect it could still offer some nice benefits, even for a multi gpu user. Better minimums, more efficient vram usage/usage in general. Taking away the need to overclock any part of the system. The point is if a person says that bf4 is their main game and they want to try mantle then it makes sense for him to have an amd gpu.

Yes that is a good point but as I said if it was as clear cut as you're saying he wouldn't have asked in the first place. That's like asking what colour the blue sky is.

You're missing the point regarding my comments on its performance. I'm saying that with 290X/780Ti 2-way overclocked you're going to have frame rates well, well above the refresh rate. So if 780TI is 100 and 290X is 100 and Mantle boosts that to 140 then what difference will it make when you apply vsync or frame limit to avoid screen tearing? That was my point.

 

[LtMatt]

Yes that is a good point but as I said if it was as clear cut as you're saying he wouldn't have asked in the first place. That's like asking what colour the blue sky is.

You're missing the point regarding my comments on its performance. I'm saying that with 290X/780Ti 2-way overclocked you're going to have frame rates well, well above the refresh rate. So if 780TI is 100 and 290X is 100 and Mantle boosts that to 140 then what difference will it make when you apply vsync or frame limit to avoid screen tearing? That was my point.

I understand your point, but now you can dial up supersampling to 11 and run with similar frame rates? Why would that not be an attractive proposition? Or he could run his 290 setup under clocked and get similar performance as he would overclocked on DX11. The game itself running on Mantle could just flat out run smoother and better, which if that is your main game its going to be a game changer. The amount of overhead in DX11 it could feel like a whole new game on Mantle. Could being the important word. We'll find out soon. Either way i think if he wants BF4 and he wants Mantle, he has to get an AMD card for the best gaming experience.

 

[Rusty0611]

I understand your point, but now you can dial up supersampling to 11 and run with similar frame rates? Why would that not be an attractive proposition? Or he could run his 290 setup under clocked and get similar performance as he would overclocked on DX11. The game itself running on Mantle could just flat out run smoother and better, which if that is your main game its going to be a game changer. The amount of overhead in DX11 it could feel like a whole new game on Mantle. Could being the important word. We'll find out soon. Either way i think if he wants BF4 and he wants Mantle, he has to get an AMD card for the best gaming experience.

Sorry didn't see where the OP said he was going to do that with SS .

You're right: there's a lot of coulds in there. None of them I'm sure have been actually confirmed as Mantle features making their way into BF4.

The latest I've heard Mantle can do is cure cancer so you're right it probably is the better option .

 

[Rezident]

OP said it's primarily for BF4 so surely the 290X's are better value there. They were when I checked a few weeks ago unless something has changed?

 

[LtMatt]

Sorry didn't see where the OP said he was going to do that with SS .

You're right: there's a lot of coulds in there. None of them I'm sure have been actually confirmed as Mantle features making their way into BF4.

The latest I've heard Mantle can do is cure cancer so you're right it probably is the better option .

That's just an example of a benefit it could realistically offer a multi gpu user of mantle. Why do i mention this? Because you said there would be no benefit for a multi gpu user. Supersampling is available in BF4 via AMD CCC and it is very demanding and will bring most systems to a crawl when using it in DX11. But it looks...stunning. That's could now be a realistic proposition. The opportunity to dial up effects to 11 without the massive performance penalty should not be overlooked.

All Mantle features will be available in BF4. Its an API that BF4 will run on, not the other way around. Its not a dice patch that's adding lukewarm support for it. Mantle can be improved upon in the future for sure, but the things i mentioned will be included from day 1 of its launch.

 

[Gregster]

Hopefully AMD will dish out some info at CES regarding the state of Mantle in BF4.

 

[hakank68]

OP said it's primarily for BF4 so surely the 290X's are better value there. They were when I checked a few weeks ago unless something has changed?

Not everyone will agree but I think the 290x is pointless compared to 290p arround £100 cheaper and a couple of fps behind in most games

 

[Rusty0611]

That's just an example of a benefit it could realistically offer a multi gpu user of mantle. Why do i mention this? Because you said there would be no benefit for a multi gpu user. Supersampling is available in BF4 via AMD CCC and it is very demanding and will bring most systems to a crawl when using it in DX11. But it looks...stunning. That's could now be a realistic proposition. The opportunity to dial up effects to 11 without the massive performance penalty should not be overlooked.

All Mantle features will be available in BF4. Its an API that BF4 will run on, not the other way around. Its not a dice patch that's adding lukewarm support for it. Mantle can be improved upon in the future for sure, but the things i mentioned will be included from day 1 of its launch.

And where have those things you mention been specifically stated as included in BF4 as tangible benefits. There's a difference in saying "Mantle can do this" to "Mantle is doing this".

I disagree regarding super sampling and looks like more like doing something for the sake of it as opposed to a real benefit. But I'm not going to stop you thinking differently.