Thomas Hitzlsperger announces he is gay

[Lunatic Dreyfus]

Who? Oh and who cares?!

I'm even less impressed by his 'heroic coming out' as he's now retired, apparently.

 

[PMKeates]

When it involves the media? Yes!

When it involves a chat with mum or day or brother or sister then clearly that's a completely different story. Does/should your family/close friends know - sure. Does/should the whole ****in world know? NO.

If the media didn't perpetually ask 'personalities' questions about their sexual interests they probably wouldn't come out so publicly. Hitzlsperger has had lots of questions over the years about it. Take Tom Daley as another example - endless speculation in the media about who is he dating, his sexuality etc. He eventually came out to the people who follow him on social media aka his fans. The international media then decided they wanted to publish it everywhere. That said, again, high profile figures being publicly out is not a bad thing when sexual discrimination is still commonplace in the world and the UK.

 

[Bawheidbob]

Do not understand why this is a news story he is just an 'ordinary person'

I am straight will they write a story about me.

 

[Jono8]

So what.

I felt the same when Tom Daley announced her was Bi-sexual...who cares. In fact I was quite shocked by the ridiculous amount of news coverage the Tom Daley thing got.

 

[Freefaller]

I think a lot of people within the sport will tell you this is a big deal .

Also; why be critical of something you don't understand? Again, not meant in a insulting way. If I don't understand something, I won't be critical or will try and not comment on it until I know more. I can recommend some fantastic football related media if you like?

I'm critical of things I understand from the perception of what I see and who I chat about it and from what I read. I may now be interested or know much about the actual sport (as in teams, and so on), but I know enough about organisations, business, media and people to have an opinion on it.

not knowing about astro physics doesn't make you any less qualified to talk about UFOs or what you think is on the edge of the galaxy. Same as the fact I don't follow football, but I do follow the news, have run businesses and deal with people giving me exposure to football fans, football chat, and straight and gay people as well as how media handles specific stories. Isn't that fair?

This is big news for football, you're right, and as I said, the club is not the problem (Hitzisperger said the dressing room were supportive) but the crowd is the problem, that's not to say at all, that crowds are problematic in their entirety, quite the opposite and as I've said, the crowds have come a long way, but this is an indication there is still a way to go and it's a step in the right direction.

The timing with the Russian winter olympics and sexuality in sport is interesting too, I don't think this is about attention seeking at all.

I just find it incredible that this sort of Neanderthal behaviour still goes on - and it seems that the common denominator is still football (not the sport) but the infrastructure and behaviour around it.

 

[Jono8]

It's newsworthy because it's got people talking about homophobia in what is a male dominated sport. You could almost be sure that if he had come out before retiring he would have had so many anti-gay chants / abuse thrown at him by opposite supporters.

I personally don't give a biscuit whether he's gay, bi, shemale, a rabbit or a jewish tiger.

But the very fact that news outlets make a big thing of it continues to perpetuate the idea that being gay or bi-sexual is 'different'.

Hence why I find the stupid amount of news coverage that both this and the Tom Daley thing got reprehensible.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

You're missing a different point entirely, though. For people who feel that they can't come out, this is probably something fairly liberating for them.

 

[Tummy]

I'm critical of things I understand from the perception of what I see and who I chat about it and from what I read. I may now be interested or know much about the actual sport (as in teams, and so on), but I know enough about organisations, business, media and people to have an opinion on it.

not knowing about astro physics doesn't make you any less qualified to talk about UFOs or what you think is on the edge of the galaxy. Same as the fact I don't follow football, but I do follow the news, have run businesses and deal with people giving me exposure to football fans, football chat, and straight and gay people as well as how media handles specific stories. Isn't that fair?



I just find it incredible that this sort of Neanderthal behaviour still goes on - and it seems that the common denominator is still football (not the sport) but the infrastructure and behaviour around it.

I wouldn't be critical of something, given that I know little about the socio-economic and cultural climate surrounding it. You don't know enough about fan culture, the cultural relationship football has, so if I was in your position, I'd refrain from being critical, like I was about Tom Daly. I used to be in semi regular contact with a group of very well educated people (involved with the Sky at Night) who knew about space and the universe, I used to read about the topic too, but I never felt the compulsion to make sweeping comments on something that I didn't understand or rather, that my grounding in the knowledge I had was actually a very small understanding. To use your own space example.

You might well have ran businesses, but you should understand that a lot of football clubs are not run like typical businesses and football has a very untypical set up in terms of off the field, if anything it's stuck in the past.

I agree that a lot of football fans and their behaviour is neanderthal like, especially elsewhere in the world, however you must then be able to recognise how significant players coming out is, as it will help establish and hopefully change attitudes so that gay footballers can feel relaxed about being openly gay without lack of reprisals from the crowds. Black players were subject (and still are) to horrible, racist abuse, however things are changing and have changed, hopefully this is a sign that football can still change attitudes. Anti homosexuality is still rife in society and politics across the world, so again it's clearly still an issue and is an issue across sport, look at the Russian Olympic's at the minute and the countries stance on Homo sexuality. This is a big thing in changing attitudes and giving other gay footballers and sports people the confidence to be who they are in front of the crowd and the world, not have to hide it away with friends, family and people at the club.

As for the previous comments about the sophistication; I think that's because a lot of people are still snobby about football being a working class sport.

Anyway, of course this is big news, it's big news within football and football is the biggest sport in the world & a huge economical form of entertainment, of course it's news. I agree totally that someone's sexuality should not be a problem, but we don't live in a world where that is true.

 

[lollox]

It's shouldn't be but unfortunately very, very few footballers are openly gay. He's a player who had a long and successful career in the Premier League and for Germany. Hopefully, this will make current players feel more comfortable with being open about their sexuality.

I found it interesting that he said that his sexuality was never a problem in the dressing room. Was it the likely rejection of the fans who put him off announcing it earlier?

well said sir, as a football fan i find it sad that this is still news, at least in the ever so enlightened world of football

 

[Tummy]

I still have 4000 words to write for Friday back to the grind stone.

 

[C.R.A.Z.Y]

If he simply lived his life, had a boyfriend or whatever they do,

It's an issue / news worthy because of bigots and stupid comments like yours.

It's YOU and people like you that is the issue, not peoples sexuality !!

 

[loltim]

The only other player I can think of off the top of my head was Justin Fashnu who later committed suicide due to depression.

He's not dead?

edit: I'm thinking of John Fashanu, my bad

 

[PMKeates]

He's not dead?

edit: I'm thinking of John Fashanu, my bad

homophobe

 

[loltim]

homophobe

How can I be a homophobe when I <3 you?

 

[PMKeates]

How can I be a homophobe when I <3 you?

get away from me you gayer

 

[Freefaller]

I wouldn't be critical of something, given that I know little about the socio-economic and cultural climate surrounding it. You don't know enough about fan culture, the cultural relationship football has, so if I was in your position, I'd refrain from being critical, like I was about Tom Daly. I used to be in semi regular contact with a group of very well educated people (involved with the Sky at Night) who knew about space and the universe, I used to read about the topic too, but I never felt the compulsion to make sweeping comments on something that I didn't understand or rather, that my grounding in the knowledge I had was actually a very small understanding. To use your own space example.

You might well have ran businesses, but you should understand that a lot of football clubs are not run like typical businesses and football has a very untypical set up in terms of off the field, if anything it's stuck in the past.

I agree that a lot of football fans and their behaviour is neanderthal like, especially elsewhere in the world, however you must then be able to recognise how significant players coming out is, as it will help establish and hopefully change attitudes so that gay footballers can feel relaxed about being openly gay without lack of reprisals from the crowds. Black players were subject (and still are) to horrible, racist abuse, however things are changing and have changed, hopefully this is a sign that football can still change attitudes. Anti homosexuality is still rife in society and politics across the world, so again it's clearly still an issue and is an issue across sport, look at the Russian Olympic's at the minute and the countries stance on Homo sexuality. This is a big thing in changing attitudes and giving other gay footballers and sports people the confidence to be who they are in front of the crowd and the world, not have to hide it away with friends, family and people at the club.

As for the previous comments about the sophistication; I think that's because a lot of people are still snobby about football being a working class sport.

Anyway, of course this is big news, it's big news within football and football is the biggest sport in the world & a huge economical form of entertainment, of course it's news. I agree totally that someone's sexuality should not be a problem, but we don't live in a world where that is true.

My comments were reflecting the conversation going on in this thread, and were not sweeping,. I now appreciate (again from the conversation in this thread) how big a deal this is in the football world.

My comments and crticism still stand firm that this shouldn't be news, and that I am still incredulous that such neanderthal behaviours exist within the football work. Which as you say is regarded as working class - but then is there any surprise? If statements like this news article are anything to go by, the it isn't surprising people have those (however unfair) preconceptions on the sport.

Ergo, my opinions and comments are entirely valid, as they are based on the article and the comments that others are making towards the subject.

Any perfectly rational human being being blown away by this news is quite frankly silly. Sure, within the football world, this is big, but outside of that, this really isn't news, as it shouldn't ever be needed to be dramatised to such an extent.

Do you wander around shouting "I'm straight" or "I can do 1000 sit ups" or whatever, or heck another example a banker saying "I pay my taxes!" - so what? It really isn't important is it, and it is what is to be expected and isn't anything but "normal".

Irrespective of ignorance of the intricacies of football, there is enough media spotlight on it to pick up enough knowledge, and as mentioned I have my contacts who deal with it regularly, sure it may be coloured slightly, but it still gives me enough to form a perfectly fair ability to criticise what I read/see - like anything, there's more than 1 side to a story, but each have their own credibility. Sure, I tend to skip articles about football specifically, though I am interested in business related news that Abramovich is involved in for example.

In my rugby days lots of people came out - did that mean we didn't share showers? no! yeah we took the **** a little, but all of us take the **** out of each other. You just go, "oh fair enough" and carry on. The more you put the lid on it the bigger the issue becomes. I abhor this media sensationalism over trivial things - that's mainly my frustration with this - not the underlying "read between the line" implications of what it means to football or football fans or the industry as a whole.

 

[Tummy]

*sigh*

My comments were reflecting the conversation going on in this thread, and were not sweeping,. I now appreciate (again from the conversation in this thread) how big a deal this is in the football world.

Some of your statements were sweeping, as were some of mine, but yours are based on;

I care not about football and never watch it or follow any news about it. I couldn't even tell you who the England captain was.

So, you admit to having a very limited knowledge of football, yet will happily make the statement;

Fair enough, didn't really realise football was so backward (not that it surprises me).

Anyway . We all make sweeping statements, I do, because I'm not writing academically on here or trying to argue my point particularly strongly, those who understand football, understand why this is newsworthy those who don't, will not understand the impact.

My comments and crticism still stand firm that this shouldn't be news, and that I am still incredulous that such neanderthal behaviours exist within the football work. Which as you say is regarded as working class - but then is there any surprise? If statements like this news article are anything to go by, the it isn't surprising people have those (however unfair) preconceptions on the sport.

Why should it not be news? Clearly news agencies feel this is newsworthy and it is within football news. I would argue that two things;

• We don't live in a perfect world / society
• Raising awareness can be a good thing

I absolutely 100% agree that someone being gay is irrelevant, however we do not live in a world where this is true. Gay people are persecuted all over the world still and many live in fear. Hitzlsperger clearly did in terms of what the implications were for him from the fans.

Also; how else are you to defeat this line of thinking without raising awareness to problems and working them out? Football can be a fantastic vessel for change and can help solve problems. Look at the racist culture that existed in this country and the work that went in to addressing that, you can not argue that something like that would have been as successful without awareness.

I totally get why this shouldn't be a thing, but people forget that we live in an imperfect world, perhaps the football micro (despite it's numbers in the millions & millions) society that surrounds football. Football has it's own culture and that culture very much has gay footballers as a taboo. It's all about change and if you aren't willing to discuss, raise awareness and educate how else will that happen? Fans will not wake up one day and be like '**** this is all wrong, we have to stop', it takes time.

Ergo, my opinions and comments are entirely valid, as they are based on the article and the comments that others are making towards the subject.

Opinions aren't invalid (well sometimes) but people are making comments and forming opinions without an understanding of football and how it works in terms of socially and it's history and culture frustrate me. As Bob Dylan said, “Don't criticize what you can't understand.”

Any perfectly rational human being being blown away by this news is quite frankly silly. Sure, within the football world, this is big, but outside of that, this really isn't news, as it shouldn't ever be needed to be dramatised to such an extent.

Why? I don't think many people are 'blown away' but many are praising him for coming out with this statement and many are highlighting that as far as football as come, there is still a long way to go.

The newspeople deem what is worthy of news coverage and how things are covered, as I said, awareness and educating people about problems can only be a good thing.

Do you wander around shouting "I'm straight" or "I can do 1000 sit ups" or whatever, or heck another example a banker saying "I pay my taxes!" - so what? It really isn't important is it, and it is what is to be expected and isn't anything but "normal".

I don't wander around shouting things like that, because I'm not likely to suffer dogs abuse or be persecuted. Your trying to apply rational thinking to tribal-istic (yes that's now a word) football fans, without taking in to consideration the history or society that exists within football fans.

Irrespective of ignorance of the intricacies of football, there is enough media spotlight on it to pick up enough knowledge, and as mentioned I have my contacts who deal with it regularly, sure it may be coloured slightly, but it still gives me enough to form a perfectly fair ability to criticise what I read/see - like anything, there's more than 1 side to a story, but each have their own credibility. Sure, I tend to skip articles about football specifically, though I am interested in business related news that Abramovich is involved in for example.

You keep saying you avoid or skip football stories and don't know much about it, try talking to people that do know about it, from its history and social impact, or read books that deal with this.

In my rugby days lots of people came out - did that mean we didn't share showers? no! yeah we took the **** a little, but all of us take the **** out of each other. You just go, "oh fair enough" and carry on. The more you put the lid on it the bigger the issue becomes. I abhor this media sensationalism over trivial things - that's mainly my frustration with this - not the underlying "read between the line" implications of what it means to football or football fans or the industry as a whole.

I've played both football and rugby (at levels I'd struggle to call amateur) and I've seen both sides of the coins, I've seen people being homophobic and I've seen people totally not see a problem with being gay. I've also read loads of books about football history and I've been to hundreds of games. I don't really understand that part of your comment though, sorry.

As for the media, meh, as I said, it's up to them to sell news to people, they do this through sensationalism, so they decide what to be outraged/in favour of, it's what they do.

Raising awareness of a problem can be a good thing though, and can help it. There is no 'read between the lines' either, people that are involved in that sort of football society understand the bigger implications of this in that world, those that aren't struggle to understand it.

We both totally agree that someone's sexuality should not be a problem but that isn't how the world or footballing worlds work.

 

[Sin_Chase]

Sorry, who?!

 

[el_dazza]

Good for him, very brave to do what he did today

Great memories of him at Villa, scored some absolute thunderbolt goals, he could really hit a ball.

I do think this would be better off in the FS though, I doubt many non-sports fans would remember a mid-table team's midfielder from 12 years ago.

 

[Tummy]

Depression is another thing that is totally taboo among football as well. It's very rarely discussed until something happens. If problems are to be solved they need to be discussed and people need to be educated on them.