Lawful killing of Mark Duggan

Dolph said:
Because hindsight is not the standard employed in these things well not be me. How were the police supposed to know for definite that the previously Unarmed criminal is now suddenly armed and maybe pointing something harmless at them? The jury accepted unanimously that Duggan had a gun on the day, and that the police did not see him dispose of it.
Though I must agree the jury or police had no evidence of this.

What we know now is not what the officers in the situation knew at the time, which is why hindsight cannot enter into the decision.
And yes the police should get more training as they got it wrong but got off with it.
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I don't know anything about the guy that was shot, i might have missed a tv documentary or something.

The incident I don't think there is any evidence that the police purposefully hunted the guy down and shot him. But I do think that you can say that the police shot the guy because he thought it was self defence.
 
Frodo1805 said:
some of the comments such as one less scumbag of our streets are disgusting.
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While we don't ideally want the police going around executing people, given the circumstances it wasn't exactly a bad thing, let's be honest. They didn't do anything really wrong either, which is why the independent jury have ruled it lawful.

The fact his likely unlawful family don't like that is just tough luck, as for the riots, his killing was just an excuse, nothing more.
 
Frodo1805 said:
some of the comments such as one less scumbag of our streets are disgusting.
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but none the less true. This guy had a criminal background, was a known drug dealer and was known to frequently carry guns on the streets of London. I;d say the police did the community a favour here.....................
 
I don't think drug dealers deserve to die like that. To me drug dealers are just business men, it is only because of prohibition that leads to it becoming a blackmarket where people can not ask for police protection. He probably had a gun to protect himself as is very common reason to have a gun. If he got pulled over by an unmarked car and thought someone was trying to kill him. Getting out the car with a gun hidden would not be such an unreasonable thing to do. It is only since guns have become illegal that it now such a big deal that even having one in your hand is enough of a justification for the police to kill you.

But again don't realy know enough about what happen to have an opinion.
 
anything I don't mind said:
I don't think drug dealers deserve to die like that. To me drug dealers are just business men, it is only because of prohibition that leads to it becoming a blackmarket where people can not ask for police protection. He probably had a gun to protect himself as is very common reason to have a gun. If he got pulled over by an unmarked car and thought someone was trying to kill him. Getting out the car with a gun hidden would not be such an unreasonable thing to do. It is only since guns have become illegal that it now such a big deal that even having one in your hand is enough of a justification for the police to kill you.
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Just lol. :D
 
anything I don't mind said:
I don't think drug dealers deserve to die like that. To me drug dealers are just business men, it is only because of prohibition that leads to it becoming a blackmarket where people can not ask for police protection. He probably had a gun to protect himself as is very common reason to have a gun. If he got pulled over by an unmarked car and thought someone was trying to kill him. Getting out the car with a gun hidden would not be such an unreasonable thing to do. It is only since guns have become illegal that it now such a big deal that even having one in your hand is enough of a justification for the police to kill you.
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WTF LOL ?

how are you even trying to justify him carrying a weapon...........
 
Housey said:
Scum likes an excuse to do scummy things. We disagree with the jury and legal process, let's steal a telly and burn a carpet shop. I'd mow them down with a bloody Phalanx in Houseyworld.
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massive +1 to this.. protesting against something is nice and dandy and IMO should be done more when it comes to some government decisions.

but breaking into shops, stealing, burning people's houses or even killing others is no way to get your point across! I bet 50% of them didn't even know why they were smashing things in the first place.

Burnsy2023 said:
Police are much more geared up for disorder now. I expect they'll be much more robust this time.
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good to hear! :) I do hope nothing comes out of it as I basically live half a mile away from that police station and with roads closed etc closed it was hard to get by :o
 
The trigger happy policeman didn't have to shoot him. If Duggan threatened him or a member of the public in a way that his life or any others were in any danger then fair enough. But the thing is he didn't !!! He didn't even have a gun on him !!!

Do you honestly think once Duggan realized there were 12 guns pointing at him, he'd go making any sudden moves? Non-Police Witnesses say it appeared he was surrendering.

I don't care how much of criminal you say he was, he deserved his day in court. Because his only crime which was not even certain at the time, was he was unlawfully carrying. He'd of got a few yrs. Not the death penalty.

Also, I know a few police in the UK, some of which who want and are trying to get into the armed response unit. They do get a little excited at handling guns from what I've witnessed. It's too much of a novelty for them. Plus I lived in London for 30yrs.. for the most part, the Met contains a large number of buffoons in uniform. Perhaps its different in the countryside, i can only speak from experience. In the 10yrs of living in the United States, I've not been pulled up or harassed / searched for doing absolutely nothing but being a young male, as I was by the Met. Police. I'm also white, hate rap and not someone pretending to be from the 'streets' !

Also given I live in the USA, I'm licensed to carry, so I've had to go through training to perceive what is a threat and what is not to obtain my license.. I cannot see how someone NOT pointing anything at someone put anyone's life in enough danger to warrant being shot. If I shot someone under similar circumstances, I'd be spending the next 15 behind bars for manslaughter, likewise if someone shot me under similar circumstances, I'd hope that the law would see right and the perp received justice.
 
roam the are randomly killign people, I would be frustrated if he had not been shot dead... why should my tax be used to keep him alive?... Id assume he had explosives he cannot have expected to live ...
 
It's easy to have hindsight when sat in front of your computer where the closest you've come to a gun is in COD, but to me it's not unlike, though on a massively lesser scale, people ****ging off the ref and linesmen because they missed an offside and gave a goal etc. when they have seen multiple replays but the ref only gets one chance.

The police officers obviously acted in good faith with their intelligence and what they got to see, without hindsight, at the scene.

I've never been the biggest fan of the police, I pretty much see them as a necessary evil but that is, admittedly, a viewpoint that's changing slowly as my views are based on lots of crap that happened in the past regarding things like the Birmingham pub bombings etc. but things have improved massively, but it's an evil I'd rather have since the alternative is a lot worse.

The lefty in my is in no way a liberal **** lefty who believes everyone is good at heart and all the police are all lying scum.
 
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