Lawful killing of Mark Duggan

McGray · 9 Jan 2014 at 13:38

Mr Jones said:
That should be the end. The family have the right to appeal that decision

No they don't.

McGray · 9 Jan 2014 at 13:40

Anyone else a bit surprised armed police don't wear cameras given the nature of the incidents they attend?

Even the PCO's 'round these parts wear them.

Mekrel · 9 Jan 2014 at 13:42

Robinhood said:
Yeah I remember whole Charles de Menezes issue few years ago when poor guy had a mag unload into the back of his head. Officers lying,Missing CCTV footage and in end the Metropolitan police (taxpayer) just ended up paying off the family to stop the legal battle.

Jean Charles de Menezes' shouldn't have even been in the UK to be shot in the first place, he was here illegally as his visa had expired.

Before anyone takes that out of context, I'm not saying he died or deserved to die because he was here illegally, but had he gone back to Brazil, he could well still be alive today.

You have to put yourself in the shoes of the armed police officers on that fateful day. Do you act on the intelligence that you're 99% confident of being correct, that Duggan had a loaded gun? Or do you hesitate due to the remaining 10% doubt, potentially putting your life and the lives of your colleagues and/or the public in danger?

Danthus · 9 Jan 2014 at 13:43

McGray said:
Anyone else a bit surprised armed police don't wear cameras given the nature of the incidents they attend?

Even the PCO's 'round these parts wear them.

Not really given the weight of the kit they carry.

McGray · 9 Jan 2014 at 13:44

How much does a small camera weigh?

Could be wrong but I'm sure the armed forces wear them.

Danthus · 9 Jan 2014 at 13:45

Mekrel said:
Jean Charles de Menezes' shouldn't have even been in the UK to be shot in the first place, he was here illegally as his visa had expired.

Before anyone takes that out of context, I'm not saying he died or deserved to die because he was here illegally, but had he gone back to Brazil, he could well still be alive today.

You have to put yourself in the shoes of the armed police officers on that fateful day. Do you act on the intelligence that you're 99% confident of being correct, that Duggan had a loaded gun? Or do you hesitate due to the remaining 10% doubt, potentially putting your life and the lives of your colleagues and/or the public in danger?

That is not true, he was in the country legally.

Robinhood · 9 Jan 2014 at 13:48

Terminal_Boy said:
And, just like Duggan, de Menezes would be alive today if he'd complied with the armed officers that challenged him.

During the 2008 inquest into Menezes's death, passengers who were travelling in the same carriage also contradicted police accounts, saying that they heard no warnings and that Menezes gave no significant reaction to arrival of the policemen. One passenger said that Menezes appeared calm even as a gun was held to his head and was clear that the police officers did not shout any warnings before shooting him.[97]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezes#Police_challenge

Point is somebody made a big "mistake" but no one got any sort of punishment in fact one of the senior officers in charge on the day Jean Charles de Menezes was shot dead by police got a promotion!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5339968.stm

Catanonia · 9 Jan 2014 at 13:49

McGray said:
How much does a small camera weigh?

Could be wrong but I'm sure the armed forces wear them.

Armed forces wear helmet mounted ones.

But undercover Trident officers don't wear helmets or couldn't all the time and hence the problem.

I fear that this incident will never die down and the family will continue forever with this trying to claim that he was an angel and should not have been shot.

I love how they completely ignore all questions about WHY DID HE HAVE A GUN ? or other questions related to his social activies.

He was shot because he was a muppet who thought he was above the system and got caught out by his stupid decision to run from the police with a gun when stopped. Throwing the gun away and running whilst being stopped by armed police is not a bright idea as he now knows.

At least we are not paying to have him locked up for years.

McGray · 9 Jan 2014 at 13:49

Originally Posted by Mekrel View Post
Jean Charles de Menezes' shouldn't have even been in the UK to be shot in the first place, he was here illegally as his visa had expired.

Before anyone takes that out of context, I'm not saying he died or deserved to die because he was here illegally, but had he gone back to Brazil, he could well still be alive today.

Wow, not sure where to start with that one lol.

Overslop · 9 Jan 2014 at 13:50

anything I don't mind said:
I thought de Menezes was murdered straight up by police because he knew too much about what happened at 7/7

kitch9 · 9 Jan 2014 at 13:53

Dear plastic gangster wannabe,

If you want to pretend you are a big man and run around with guns, don't cry like the little girl you actually are when the real big men fill you full of plugs.

Regards,

Everyone else who isn't a moron.

Mr Jack · 9 Jan 2014 at 13:53

Terminal_Boy said:
And, just like Duggan, de Menezes would be alive today if he'd complied with the armed officers that challenged him.

There is precious little reason to believe this. Witnesses state that no warning was given and the jury found 8:2 that this was the case.

I still believe the officers involved in killing de Menezes should have faced criminal proceedings for their actions.

Edrof · 9 Jan 2014 at 13:53

TrixiBuG said:
Okay sorry about that (not a sarcastic question)

On the plus side...kittens!

grumpysculler · 9 Jan 2014 at 13:56

zenf said:
I believe the only witness to the shooting (not a member of the police) said that Mark was surrendering and was executed by the police,

You mean the bloke who was on the NINTH floor at the time and could clearly identify a mobile phone from that distance?

kitch9 · 9 Jan 2014 at 13:57

Mr Jack said:
There is precious little reason to believe this. Witnesses state that no warning was given and the jury found 8:2 that this was the case.

I still believe the officers involved in killing de Menezes should have faced criminal proceedings for their actions.

Armed Police whilst being equipped with guns have to follow the same laws as us. So if I stab someone and can prove it was in self defense of either myself or others I won't face prosecution. Same with the armed police they are armed and can carry guns legally but they can only us them when needed in the defense of themselves or others.

Mekrel · 9 Jan 2014 at 13:58

McGray said:
Wow, not sure where to start with that one lol.

Care to elaborate? Had he not have been in the UK on the 22nd July, he wouldn't have been shot by British armed police in London. Again, not saying he deserved to be shot because he was here illegally, just stating a fact.

Dis86 · 9 Jan 2014 at 13:59

grumpysculler said:
You mean the bloke who was on the NINTH floor at the time and could clearly identify a mobile phone from that distance?

That would be the guy!

tom_e · 9 Jan 2014 at 14:02

grumpysculler said:
You mean the bloke who was on the NINTH floor at the time and could clearly identify a mobile phone from that distance?

He obviously had his binoculars out at the time

doodah · 9 Jan 2014 at 14:03

Coming into this slightly blind; can someone clarify? Did the officer who shot him (and possibly another) testify they saw a gun in his hand for both shots fired? Though the jury acknowledged he likely threw the gun immediately after exiting the taxi and was then shot?

Slightly perplexed as to how his family portray him as a pillar in the community who turned his back on crime - yet possessed a gun :confused:

wickfut · 9 Jan 2014 at 14:10

Mekrel said:
Care to elaborate? Had he not have been in the UK on the 22nd July, he wouldn't have been shot by British armed police in London. Again, not saying he deserved to be shot because he was here illegally, just stating a fact.

Had he stayed in bed watching midget porn dvds he'd probably not been shot either. What's your point?