Would you say this is exploitation at work? Just want Thoughts
- Thread starter solado
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I think you've possibly left it a bit too late to negotiate your wage, since you've actually been doing this stuff without any complaint. My answer lies somewhere between pitchfork's and glen8's "getting rolled over" approach, because I don't think you're being asked to use skills that are particularly scarce which doesn't put you in a great spot for negotiations.
Chalk this one up to experience and try and find something else. If you know how to maintain backups and build a website then you're worth a lot more than minimum wage.
Chalk this one up to experience and try and find something else. If you know how to maintain backups and build a website then you're worth a lot more than minimum wage.
I've never read so much rubbish in all my life....so congratulations on that front (you've done well, especially on GD)
The teaboy would have shown initiative and helped out where he could. Working with the senior devs and eventually proven himself to the point where the company invest in some training for him. He will have worked hard and been promoted, eventually ending up in the senior dev team (after a few years of course).
Due to the promotions and training he will have been given pay increases along the way. Hopefully he is happy with said company and sees no reason to leave. The company therefore getting back their initial investment.
REMEMBER: Nobody is going to invest in lazy people!
oh, and well done on missing the point of the thread. The teaboy wouldnt have been doing that work, as HES NOT GETTING PAID FOR IT LOL
Haha
I think the average reality will often fall somewhere between the two extremes you both paint.First of all you must have led an incredibly sheltered life if that is the biggest load of rubbish you've ever read. I've seen watered down versions of it myself - some companies for whatever reason simply don't invest in their teaboys in that way... perhaps because the people taking the decisions have no knowledge of their value, perhaps because they don't invest in training, perhaps because they seek people from a specific background to fill such roles etc. And so you do get these legacy systems sat around that cannot be adequately supported/maintained by the remaining permanent staff [conversely you will also get some people effectively empire-building off such systems because they know it means job security and/or overtime opportunities].
Basically, going the extra mile will get you ahead in some companies/departments. In others, it may not. Likewise some people do get promoted for 'just doing their job', although I suppose it is always difficult to exactly pin down people's work precisely to their current job description.
I never get this 'it isn't in my job description' nonsense.
I see this quite simply. You are employed, youdo what the employer wants. This gives you skills and experience that you can evidence on your CV, or in a larger company, put in your end of year appraisal.
If you feel you are doing more than you think you are being paid for, research local roles doing the same. Apply for them, and if successful, leave. I find no merit in bargaining your position with an existing employer, you will leave eventually anyway if you feel this way.
To progress in work you need to work outside your existing comfort/employment zone and prove your worth. For 2 years I did the work of someone two grade higher than me, and hen the time was right, got selected for a role .. You guessed it .. Two grades higher, with the associated pay and reward.
Why do people always feel the world owes them something. If my office said 'You are emptying bins for a week' I'd do it, simply because I'm still being paid ! Granted that is extreme and wouldn't happen, but I'd definitely not quibble about doing things more junior/senior than my role.
I see this quite simply. You are employed, youdo what the employer wants. This gives you skills and experience that you can evidence on your CV, or in a larger company, put in your end of year appraisal.
If you feel you are doing more than you think you are being paid for, research local roles doing the same. Apply for them, and if successful, leave. I find no merit in bargaining your position with an existing employer, you will leave eventually anyway if you feel this way.
To progress in work you need to work outside your existing comfort/employment zone and prove your worth. For 2 years I did the work of someone two grade higher than me, and hen the time was right, got selected for a role .. You guessed it .. Two grades higher, with the associated pay and reward.
Why do people always feel the world owes them something. If my office said 'You are emptying bins for a week' I'd do it, simply because I'm still being paid ! Granted that is extreme and wouldn't happen, but I'd definitely not quibble about doing things more junior/senior than my role.
I have found out this "Do free work and get promoted" doesn't really work in a big faceless company with management sitting somewhere where they never see you.
In my job I was doing extra training duties for several months (Basically acting as a trainer for a team of people), then went to ask for the corresponding title to be added to my contract (trainer), as that's what half of my job was and I was only getting paid the same as everyone else not doing it.. they said no, so I stopped doing it. 4 months later they realized they can't go on without a trainer, so they offered me the job anyway with the corresponding pay rise. If I had continued to do it for free, would they have offered it to me? No.
The world sucks and everyone who can will exploit your skills for free if you can. Just do the same if you get the chance unless the person/company has done something exceptional for you.
In my job I was doing extra training duties for several months (Basically acting as a trainer for a team of people), then went to ask for the corresponding title to be added to my contract (trainer), as that's what half of my job was and I was only getting paid the same as everyone else not doing it.. they said no, so I stopped doing it. 4 months later they realized they can't go on without a trainer, so they offered me the job anyway with the corresponding pay rise. If I had continued to do it for free, would they have offered it to me? No.
The world sucks and everyone who can will exploit your skills for free if you can. Just do the same if you get the chance unless the person/company has done something exceptional for you.
Soldato
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wow, with that attitude you're really going places!
Surely this is about bettering ones self for their next job? You have to take the positives, not dwell on the negatives.
Soldato
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It's about working smarter, not harder... the boss is working smarter as he's got someone to do his website for the cost of an admin. Sod. That.
From my perspective as an employer, this is the best response so far. Doing these extra duties, whilst outside your job description, will give you demonstrable experience that you can put on your CV. You can apply for other jobs and, when another position is offered to you, it will be on a higher wage and, if you want to stay on in your current position, you can use this to barter with your current employer rather than simply asking "can I have some more please sir?".
craaaaaig said:
In the first 2 years, except in cases of discrimination, it's nigh on impossible to claim unfair dismissal. So yes, actually you can.
This. I don't understand people whose aim is to 'not get fired' instead of actually trying to get further ahead.
Maybe it's because i'm on a fixed term contract instead of a full time type, but I doubt my attitude would change because of it. Where's the fun in just doing what you're doing, without any change, for the rest of your life?
Associate
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At least you can put all the IT stuff you've been doing on your cv rather than 'cleaning floors', which oddly seems to be your current preference.
By that logic nuclear scientists should do their job for free/for minimum wage for an unknown period of time before they can actually find a person/employer that will pay them accordingly for their skills.
I think in that situation, the "real paid jobs" would disappear. Same reason why free workforce incentives for jobless people do not do any good for the economy.
If you possess a skill that can only be bought in the market for 30 pounds/hour, you should not do it for any less or capitalism dictates that it will soon be only available for whatever price the lowest person is offering it for. Good for the companies, not good for the workers.
I'm firmly in the "above and beyond normal duties" camp, and it's definitely paid off so far in my current company.
So far in the 2 years I've been here I've had:
While I can understand that it's not the same in every company, maybe that's an indication that you need to find a better employer, rather than deciding to work strictly to your job description.
So far in the 2 years I've been here I've had:
- 25% pay rise for implementing improvements to various systems off my own back.
- Had a meal out at a fancy restaurant for me and my partner paid for on the company credit card, for helping move furniture etc. for an office move.
- Got a free week for the whole family in the MD's holiday home by the beach next summer for sorting out her kid's laptop.
- Just been moved from IT support to a developer role (along with associated payrise etc.) for showing that I could do it (rather than responding with "its not my job").
While I can understand that it's not the same in every company, maybe that's an indication that you need to find a better employer, rather than deciding to work strictly to your job description.
Exactly. Had an old colleague who would not do any extra work unless it was specified in his contract!
If extra work is suggested, I won't say no straight out, I'll ask what's in it for me.
That's the trick, it's about playing fair.
Soldato
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I don't think we are saying extra work, but work outside of the individuals contract. Like if someone on reception is asked to do admin work (and they want to progress to say the admin manager).
We have two camps
1. Those who only do what's stated in their contract
2. Those who do extra work outside their contract in order to have a better chance of promotion, or a better chance of getting another job
In the OPs case, working in a shop but being asked to do IT work. Since he wants to work in IT anyway, I think he should do it personally.
[...]
While I can understand that it's not the same in every company, maybe that's an indication that you need to find a better employer, rather than deciding to work strictly to your job description.
This. Going above and beyond your job description is fine, but only if it's recognised! Mugs game if you're slaving away without any recognition, time to move elsewhere.