Would you say this is exploitation at work? Just want Thoughts

[solado]

and this is the problem with an increasing number of employees (more so between 18 - 30).

You have a job - YES
You are doing IT work rather than boring shop work - YES
You will be keeping your skills fresh, up to date - YES
You will be making your CV look better for your next job - YES

Don't like the job.....LEAVE!

I really hate the 'im not paid to do that' attitude. We have a few guys at work (around the age of 24ish) who keep going on about moving up to third line. They have NO qualifications, NO experience, and worse are unwilling to do any third line work before being offered the job (and money). Guess what, they will be sat on second line!

/thread

I have an interview Monday so let's hope these skills did help me out

Yea, I just turned 24 and really struggling to find work as most people won't give me a chance... Let's hope good things happen. Not all us younger British workers are lazy ya'know

 

[pitchfork]

and this is the problem with an increasing number of employees (more so between 18 - 30).

You have a job - YES
You are doing IT work rather than boring shop work - YES
You will be keeping your skills fresh, up to date - YES
You will be making your CV look better for your next job - YES

Don't like the job.....LEAVE!

I really hate the 'im not paid to do that' attitude. We have a few guys at work (around the age of 24ish) who keep going on about moving up to third line. They have NO qualifications, NO experience, and worse are unwilling to do any third line work before being offered the job (and money). Guess what, they will be sat on second line!

/thread

I don't do things which I'm not paid to do, why should I leave because I'm unwilling to give a millionaire free labour?

I work hard and I get a lot of stuff done, want more? Pay more.

If people only ever did what was in their job description, yes, a few millionaires would be less rich, but a few more people would be employed in any company and that adds up.

 

[kindai]

I would say that if you were not hired as an IT consultant / IT support / Whatever then your actually working outside your job description and can refuse to do the work.

Just because you have a skillset, if your not employed on the basis of using that skillset, doesn't mean you have to use them.

 

[glenimp617]

I don't do things which I'm not paid to do, why should I leave because I'm unwilling to give a millionaire free labour?

I work hard and I get a lot of stuff done, want more? Pay more.

If people only ever did what was in their job description, yes, a few millionaires would be less rich, but a few more people would be employed in any company and that adds up.

Current job aside...

I don't do things which I'm not paid to do

Nobody gets a promotion with that attitude

want more? Pay more.

No, you want more money, you do more and prove you are worth it

Like bill gates said, the world owes you nothing. The proof is in the pudding. Everyone I know with that attitude is sat on less money with less responsibilities moaning about wanting more. Those people with more, have had to work hard for it and go the extra mile. Yes, you have to do things without getting paid but the rewards will come.

Classic example was out of hours support at my place. The top boss asked if anyone would offer to go on the out of hours rota for no extra money. Three people offered, over ten turned their noses up.
Free out of hours support lasted a month before those three got an extra £3,000 added to their salaries, plus phone and laptop. You can only guess what the others thought of that!!!!!

but hey, this is just my opinion guys

 

[glenimp617]

I have an interview Monday so let's hope these skills did help me out

Yea, I just turned 24 and really struggling to find work as most people won't give me a chance... Let's hope good things happen. Not all us younger British workers are lazy ya'know

make sure you tell them about you doing extra IT work at your current place. A good attitude is worth a lot to an employer. Skills can be taught, a change in attitude can't (or not as easily). Plus if you are helping out your current boss, he will more than likely give a great reference

 

[Yamahahahahaha]

glen8 is my favourite kind of person. That mentality keeps a lot of IT companies in business.

He's the kind of guy who'll let the junior assistant trainee teaboy make a business application (or website) which eventually becomes key to a department's workflow. After a few months the teaboy leaves for a better (paid) position. When the system breaks the company discovers there are no backups and no documentation of how the system functions! Whoops!

They scrabble around to contact the original author who has moved on to a much better job (because they can build these things) who has no good will towards the company that basically exploited them, he tells the company to jog on. After the initial wave of dread they call up an outsource company to fix it for them. From outsource and MSP companies everywhere, thankyou glen8 and managers everywhere like you for giving this industry such a healthy and profitable boost.

@solado, I hope you get the position you're going for. Remember that if your current job want anything fixed it's your new hourly wage multiplied by 3, 4 hour minimum, even if it's a 2 minute job.

 

[glenimp617]

glen8 is my favourite kind of person. That mentality keeps a lot of IT companies in business.

He's the kind of guy who'll let the junior assistant trainee teaboy make a business application (or website) which eventually becomes key to a department's workflow. After a few months the teaboy leaves for a better (paid) position. When the system breaks the company discovers there are no backups and no documentation of how the system functions! Whoops!

They scrabble around to contact the original author who has moved on to a much better job (because they can build these things) who has no good will towards the company that basically exploited them, he tells the company to jog on. After the initial wave of dread they call up an outsource company to fix it for them. From outsource and MSP companies everywhere, thankyou glen8 and managers everywhere like you for giving this industry such a healthy and profitable boost.

@solado, I hope you get the position you're going for. Remember that if your current job want anything fixed it's your new hourly wage multiplied by 3, 4 hour minimum, even if it's a 2 minute job.

I've never read so much rubbish in all my life....so congratulations on that front (you've done well, especially on GD )

The teaboy would have shown initiative and helped out where he could. Working with the senior devs and eventually proven himself to the point where the company invest in some training for him. He will have worked hard and been promoted, eventually ending up in the senior dev team (after a few years of course).

Due to the promotions and training he will have been given pay increases along the way. Hopefully he is happy with said company and sees no reason to leave. The company therefore getting back their initial investment.

REMEMBER: Nobody is going to invest in lazy people!

oh, and well done on missing the point of the thread. The teaboy wouldnt have been doing that work, as HES NOT GETTING PAID FOR IT LOL

 

[DanielMMS]

Here's a novel suggestion but have you discussed this with your employer? Phrasing it right so it doesn't sound like a whinge might be difficult but at least if you raise it you will have cleared the air and may even achieve a positive outcome.

 

[PMKeates]

I would just like to echo the sentiments of those promoting the 'work hard' attitude. I have worked a silly number of hours on a silly number of things that have never been in any employment contracts, and they have only contributed positively to my overall career and compensation. Nobody owed me any of the opportunities and I had no right to them. That said, don't be exploited. If you can walk in to another position with double the benefits and no downsides, do it - but be very sure it's really the case.

 

[glenimp617]

I would just like to echo the sentiments of those promoting the 'work hard' attitude. I have worked a silly number of hours on a silly number of things that have never been in any employment contracts, and they have only contributed positively to my overall career and compensation. Nobody owed me any of the opportunities and I had no right to them.

You have restored my faith in OCUKmanity

 

[ubern00b]

I've never read so much rubbish in all my life....so congratulations on that front (you've done well, especially on GD )

In my experience what he wrote is absolutely spot on. He doesnt obviously mean "tea boy" but using that as an expression to denote people not in the correct roles doing things they shouldn't be doing, and doing them badly for that matter.

But, you knew that, didn't you?

 

[ubern00b]

I would just like to echo the sentiments of those promoting the 'work hard' attitude. I have worked a silly number of hours on a silly number of things that have never been in any employment contracts, and they have only contributed positively to my overall career and compensation. Nobody owed me any of the opportunities and I had no right to them. That said, don't be exploited. If you can walk in to another position with double the benefits and no downsides, do it - but be very sure it's really the case.

I agree with this sentiment whole heartedly. Work for the position you want, not the one you have however beware of being exploited. It can be a fine line, granted, but its the only way to get ahead in life.

 

[pitchfork]

Current job aside...

I don't do things which I'm not paid to do

Nobody gets a promotion with that attitude

want more? Pay more.

No, you want more money, you do more and prove you are worth it

Like bill gates said, the world owes you nothing. The proof is in the pudding. Everyone I know with that attitude is sat on less money with less responsibilities moaning about wanting more. Those people with more, have had to work hard for it and go the extra mile. Yes, you have to do things without getting paid but the rewards will come.

Classic example was out of hours support at my place. The top boss asked if anyone would offer to go on the out of hours rota for no extra money. Three people offered, over ten turned their noses up.
Free out of hours support lasted a month before those three got an extra £3,000 added to their salaries, plus phone and laptop. You can only guess what the others thought of that!!!!!

but hey, this is just my opinion guys

Funny how you say "you won't get a promotion with that attitude" but I've excelled in every place I've ever worked, my output is what matters, not my ability to be some demanding *****'s little bitch boy.

The guys who kiss ass just spend their life kissing ass, they get one or two token promotions but in general the kiss assing is useless. It's the guys who do things on their terms and get results who succeed, those are the guys who rise up the ranks, never let someone walk all over you, never kiss ass and let your work do the talking because talent drives a company and not licking boots.

I don't believe the world owes me anything, I believe that doing extra work demands extra money, hence, work more, pay more.

I owe the company nothing and they owe me nothing, they pay me, I do the work. If I don't do the work I don't expect the pay, they therefore can't expect the work if they aren't paying me.

Want to add more to my job description? Well that's fine but you'd better have a chequebook handy, this is the real world, money talks.

 

[glenimp617]

Funny how you say "you won't get a promotion with that attitude" but I've excelled in every place I've ever worked, my output is what matters, not my ability to be some demanding *****'s little bitch boy.

The guys who kiss ass just spend their life kissing ass, they get one or two token promotions but in general the kiss assing is useless. It's the guys who do things on their terms and get results who succeed, those are the guys who rise up the ranks, never let someone walk all over you, never kiss ass and let your work do the talking because talent drives a company and not licking boots.

I don't believe the world owes me anything, I believe that doing extra work demands extra money, hence, work more, pay more.

Want to add more to my job description? Well that's fine but you'd better have a chequebook handy, this is the real world, money talks.

sounds like you work hard and get stuck in. I have no problem with that.
There is a difference between being someones bitch and doing extra (non paid) work to further your career. I'm talking about the latter (without being an bum licker). You have to put the hours in obviously.

 

[Adam]

I would just like to echo the sentiments of those promoting the 'work hard' attitude. I have worked a silly number of hours on a silly number of things that have never been in any employment contracts, and they have only contributed positively to my overall career and compensation. Nobody owed me any of the opportunities and I had no right to them. That said, don't be exploited. If you can walk in to another position with double the benefits and no downsides, do it - but be very sure it's really the case.

Well said, I think this applies in the OP's situation too.

In my experience people who say "I am not doing X because it's not in my job description" don't get very far. Those who embrace new opportunities and turn their hand to new things and learn new skills do.

 

[sports_brah]

sounds like you work hard and get stuck in. I have no problem with that.
There is a difference between being someones bitch and doing extra (non paid) work to further your career. I'm talking about the latter (without being an bum licker). You have to put the hours in obviously.

I can see what you're saying. Once I've finished my Masters, I hope to get a graduate position somewhere. I'm more than happy to go beyond the call of duty as I know it'll have a positive impact upon my career.

HOWEVER, this context is not true for a lot of people, and working hard does NOT produce results.

Being absolutely honest, considering the scenario that the OP has stated, do you REALLY think there is any promotion available? The boss clearly has a handle on the situation and is merely extracting labour he knows he is getting for free.

If the OP is of a mentality whereby he can use the experience to directly further himself, then grand, otherwise he is on to a hiding to nothing.

 

[oulton]

Reminds me of a time when temping at a factory and the boss said he would give me 50 quid for translating a health and safety meeting into polish for his work force who were all speaking Polish.

The next day when he was due to give me the 50 quid, he didn't turn up....

 

[pitchfork]

sounds like you work hard and get stuck in. I have no problem with that.
There is a difference between being someones bitch and doing extra (non paid) work to further your career. I'm talking about the latter (without being an bum licker). You have to put the hours in obviously.

I've never done unpaid overtime in my life, I don't mind doing 80 hours in that week if there's something in it for me and I don't mean brownie points.

The point is, you must make yourself an asset if you want to dictate the terms of your employment.
Yeah you could work 80 hours but the employer will only like you because you're a bargain, if you can demonstrate how to do 80 hours worth of work in 40 hours then you're an asset.

Ultimately it doesn't matter what OP does, in reality HR guys aren't going to even look at this crappy job as part of a serious career.

 

[ubern00b]

The point is, you must make yourself an asset if you want to dictate the terms of your employment.
Yeah you could work 80 hours but the employer will only like you because you're a bargain, if you can demonstrate how to do 80 hours worth of work in 40 hours then you're an asset.

Ding Ding. We have a winner.

 

[glenimp617]

and how do you get to being able to do 80hrs work in 40? by first getting your head down, working hard and learning

I'm not saying do unpaid overtime, or do more hours for nothing. What I'm saying is go above and beyond your job description if you wan to stand a chance in getting a promotion or payrise.

else, why is anyone going to give you a payrise for doing what you are employed for doing in the first place (ie if you want to go from second line to third line you have to demonstrate you are worthy of a third line position before getting the promotion). That means doing something other than what's asked of you for nothing.

Now im not saying the OP is going to get a promotion where he's working now but options as I see it

1. Do shop work for shop work money

2. Do IT work for shop work money when you want to get an IT job in the future

what sounds better in an interview

I've been working in a shop for 6 months

I've been working in a shop for 6 months, the boss noticed I had an interest in IT so during those six months I've been doing a new company website, repairing laptops etc etc