Would you say this is exploitation at work? Just want Thoughts

glenimp617 · 10 Jan 2014 at 12:36

Musty Pie said:
asked me to clean the toilets or wash the dishes as "part of my job role" they would get the same response everyone else in this office would give them:

"I'm not paid to do that"

ahhhhh, but what if you wanted to become a janitor?

Let's say toilet cleaners made £100k a year with experience. Now that would make a bit more sense.

Same applies to this thread. The OP is looking for IT work, not shop work.

glenimp617 · 10 Jan 2014 at 12:39

Evilsod said:
This thread is great fun to read. glen8 seems to be an advocate for doing whatever is asked regardless of situation and whether it will actually help you out in any way, shape or form.

No im not, why is this so hard to understand

I'm saying people with a 'can do attitude', those people who dont mind doing things which aren't in their contract (WHICH will help them personally, in either asking for a rise, promotion, or help in getting a better job should do.

There are those in the other camp who would flat out refuse unless they are getting paid, or simply wouldnt do it

PMKeates · 10 Jan 2014 at 12:39

Musty Pie said:
He shouldn't feel forced to leave for refusing to do work that he is not paid to do.

it really is that simple.

I don't know what you do for a living but if my company (one of the largest IT manufacturers in the world) asked me to clean the toilets or wash the dishes as "part of my job role" they would get the same response everyone else in this office would give them:

"I'm not paid to do that"

@ glen8 he could do that, and then that would be his choice and he wouldn't have any issues. But judging by the fact he doesn't seem happy to do this on his wage I don't think that's the case.

He isn't forced to. He can sit there and do exactly what he is paid for if he wants. He could even try and negotiate a pay increase to cover his new responsibilities. My guess is the business has little direct need for those skills but is trying to best utilise what the workforce can do, and the OP gets to do something more interesting as a result. He is doing something more enjoyable, he is gaining more experience, he may learn something new. It sounds a lot better than shuffling paper. If the OP feels the market is ready to pay him the 'going rate' for that work, then he's free to take his labour elsewhere.

glenimp617 · 10 Jan 2014 at 12:42

LOVE this thread

I wonder if the OP knew this would happen when he started typing out the first post lol

Have to say, the debate is good....and surprisingly hasn't turned in to a huge argument with name calling

Musty Pie · 10 Jan 2014 at 12:45

glen8 said:
ahhhhh, but what if you wanted to become a janitor?

Let's say toilet cleaners made £100k a year with experience. Now that would make a bit more sense.

Same applies to this thread. The OP is looking for IT work, not shop work.

But he is not going to get IT work in this shop .. Otherwise he would have applied for an IT role?

So is your point not a bit ... pointless?

Evilsod · 10 Jan 2014 at 12:46

glen8 said:
No im not, why is this so hard to understand

I'm saying people with a 'can do attitude', those people who dont mind doing things which aren't in their contract (WHICH will help them personally, in either asking for a rise, promotion, or help in getting a better job should do.

There are those in the other camp who would flat out refuse unless they are getting paid, or simply wouldnt do it

There is not minding doing things additional to what you are paid for and there is being exploited to do something that won't really benefit you and would normally be done by someone at a much higher pay grade.

As people have said already. What is almost guaranteed to happen if he creates the website, when he leaves for a better job, the website will sit there until it breaks with nobody having any clue about how to fix it and the OP wouldn't be under any obligation to help out.

glenimp617 · 10 Jan 2014 at 12:51

Musty Pie said:
But he is not going to get IT work in this shop .. Otherwise he would have applied for an IT role?

So is your point not a bit ... pointless?

I know that, but he is doing IT work (rather than shop work) which will help him (at least help him more than shop work) with future IT jobs. He's already said he's going for an IT interview soon.

glenimp617 · 10 Jan 2014 at 12:53

Evilsod said:
As people have said already. What is almost guaranteed to happen if he creates the website, when he leaves for a better job, the website will sit there until it breaks with nobody having any clue about how to fix it and the OP wouldn't be under any obligation to help out.

That's his bosses look out, not his. He's spent works time learning HTML, CSS, Javascript to better his career. That website breaks, tough for the company.

They can always contract him back in at web developer rates

Caged · 10 Jan 2014 at 12:55

Obviously we need to know a bit about what the OP was doing before, but menial tasks such as keeping old PCs running just aren't relevant skills in most IT careers. It's like claiming that someone who was once head chef in a restaurant should be grateful that they are being put in the kitchen at a McDonalds instead of having to clean the bogs because it's keeping their skills in use.

covenantuk · 10 Jan 2014 at 13:17

I got my first proper IT job because I could demonstrate aptitude from a previous job in a motor dealer where I installed a new network and setup/configured software to manage the servicing/parts side of the business.

Do the extra work, he's paying you to add skills to your CV, but don't do work on your own time and don't rush it.

Haggisman · 10 Jan 2014 at 13:24

Caged said:
This idea that someone capable of compiling budget reports has fallen on hard times and has a job shovelling crap around outside should then jump at the chance to do their skilled job for the same wage simply because it's inside and painting it as bettering themselves somehow is laughable. It's only bettering the employer.

If you had the choice of compiling budget reports or shovelling crap around for a £100k salary, which would you choose?

How about at a £90k salary?
£80k?
£70k?
Etc...

Salary considerations being equal - at what point does shovelling crap around in the wet and cold become a nicer job than sitting in a comfy office creating spreadsheets?

Because this is the OPs reality. He's extremely unlikely to get a payrise for doing this IT work, so if he asks for one or refuses to do it, he probably wont get one. Best case scenario he'll be stuck doing just shop work while the boss gets a professional in for the IT, or does it himself. Worst case scenario, the OP loses his job.

pitchfork · 10 Jan 2014 at 13:32

PMKeates said:
How is it so hard to understand that he can leave if he has a problem with it?

How is it so hard to understand he can just not do things if he isn't contractually obligated?

pitchfork · 10 Jan 2014 at 13:36

Haggisman said:
You'd rather shovel **** in the cold and wet than sit in a warm clean office working on a PC? Even if you were looking for a job that involved compiling budget reports?

I would yeah, I hate being indoors working on a PC, I'm really bloody good at it but I'd rather have a crappy manual labour job I don't need to think about. No money in it though is there.

And if you're a **** shoveler looking for a job compiling budget reports, no one is going to believe "compiling budget reports" was part of your job role as a **** shoveler. So why bother?

If I was looking for serious IT staff "I done the pc's and that at the shop I worked for" would barely even be classed as experience.

Musty Pie · 10 Jan 2014 at 13:53

pitchfork said:
If I was looking for serious IT staff "I done the pc's and that at the shop I worked for" would barely even be classed as experience.

Someone who sees sense.

I know opinions are diverse on this topic but I really do think that people have misunderstood the OP's situation quite drastically.

JonJ678 · 10 Jan 2014 at 14:16

Could we have a third group for "Do things that aren't in your job description for the fun of it"?

I'm meant to be programming. That's fine, I like programming. I'm currently doing longer hours than I should be, in part because I'm doing some system admin work. That's definitely beyond the scope, but it's fun so I've volunteered.

There's no promotion prospects that could result from this and a fair amount of grief. In a similar vein, building a website for his boss isn't likely to attract promotion and is quite likely to attract grief. But it's probably quite fun, so there's not really a loss.

edscdk · 10 Jan 2014 at 14:23

going rate for low level it i would say is 2x what you are paid, so... jsut take it easy... sit back and have a rest...

fix a pc? all day job
web site? well the software is on your home pc, thats 2- 6 months sat at home making the site..

etc etc....

glenimp617 · 10 Jan 2014 at 15:20

pitchfork said:
If I was looking for serious IT staff "I done the pc's and that at the shop I worked for" would barely even be classed as experience.

but at least it's better than saying 'I done nothing other than shop work'

Caged · 10 Jan 2014 at 15:33

But what would be better would be doing the job you were hired for and reading up on something like VMware while you're getting paid, leaving bang on time, then building a lab at home and working those skills into your CV.

Haggisman · 10 Jan 2014 at 15:42

Caged said:
But what would be better would be doing the job you were hired for and reading up on something like VMware while you're getting paid, leaving bang on time, then building a lab at home and working those skills into your CV.

There's no reason he couldn't do exactly the same if he was doing IT work in his work hours? :confused:

PMKeates · 10 Jan 2014 at 15:44

pitchfork said:
How is it so hard to understand he can just not do things if he isn't contractually obligated?

Nobody has suggested he is obliged to do extra, only that doing extra is a better option than not. If the OP is so secure and his labour so valuable, he can withdraw it and take it elsewhere. If the OP is actually pretty hard up, doesn't have many options available, then there is absolutely no loss for him in, instead of filing paper, working on IT-related tasks.

Musty Pie said:
Someone who sees sense.

I know opinions are diverse on this topic but I really do think that people have misunderstood the OP's situation quite drastically.

I don't think we have misunderstood it at all. The OP is 24 and is working for £6.91/hr - just 60p/hr above the legal minimum wage anyone could pay him. He is not in a position to be turning down anything that could even remotely be an opportunity. I think it's already been established that the OP actually prefers the IT work.

Caged said:
But what would be better would be doing the job you were hired for and reading up on something like VMware while you're getting paid, leaving bang on time, then building a lab at home and working those skills into your CV.

Or, he can work the same hours in the office and be doing something at least remotely like what he actually wants to do.

I just can't fathom why you wouldn't want to do it. If I worked for on the shop floor of Primark earning £6.50/hr, and someone said "Hey PMK, come run our store IT systems instead as nobody else knows about them" I would be there in a flash. Wouldn't think twice. What would I stand to lose?