Oh dear, the benefit scroungers are scared!

Let's face it, most of the problems were caused by Labour not having a clue what they are doing. But because they are the #1 party as far as the poor are concerned, they will be the party that gets in the most, simply due to there being more poor voters than rich voters. Also the poor are more clumped together, so as votes are ordered by constituents, ie areas, more votes will count.

A consequence of this is either two phrases!

BLAME THE RICH

BLAME THE CONSERVATIVES!

A consequence of that is

BLAME EVERYONE ELSE FOR MY PROBLEMS.

I really don't understand this issue of benefits: you say there are no jobs... I found jobs when I was looking but I was not willing to work picking up litter given I had a degree, I had too much self respect... now I own a company, soon to be two, I pay corporation tax on top of personal tax...I am proof that you can get a living if you really want one.

I would say my role as a company director with no employees as present is a lot harder work than picking up litter... I certainly spend a lot more than 8 hours a day working!

This is the issue...people can't be bothered putting the time in, especially as, thanks to Labour, they can recieve more money on the dole than they can working, especially if they pump out a few kids!
 
It's almost like you just proved everyone right about not bothering to reply to any of the points and counter-points they have made, instead choosing to post post post your opinions presented as fact.
 
86JR said:
I really don't understand this issue of benefits: you say there are no jobs... I found jobs when I was looking but I was not willing to work picking up litter given I had a degree, I had too much self respect... now I own a company, soon to be two, I pay corporation tax on top of personal tax...I am proof that you can get a living if you really want one.

I would say my role as a company director with no employees as present is a lot harder work than picking up litter... I certainly spend a lot more than 8 hours a day working!

This is the issue...people can't be bothered putting the time in, especially as, thanks to Labour, they can recieve more money on the dole than they can working, especially if they pump out a few kids!
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What?

You say you are too good for picking up litter then you go ahead and bash people who sit on benefits because they don't want to do jobs that you just said yourself you didn't want to do.

Having read a few of your posts it confirms my suspicion about the kind of person you are, well done you started a company, not everyone has the kind of skills or are in a position to do so.

Just because you did it, doesn't mean everyone else can do it.
 
86JR said:
Let's face it, most of the problems were caused by Labour not having a clue what they are doing. But because they are the #1 party as far as the poor are concerned, they will be the party that gets in the most, simply due to there being more poor voters than rich voters. Also the poor are more clumped together, so as votes are ordered by constituents, ie areas, more votes will count.

A consequence of this is either two phrases!

BLAME THE RICH

BLAME THE CONSERVATIVES!

A consequence of that is

BLAME EVERYONE ELSE FOR MY PROBLEMS.

I really don't understand this issue of benefits: you say there are no jobs... I found jobs when I was looking but I was not willing to work picking up litter given I had a degree, I had too much self respect... now I own a company, soon to be two, I pay corporation tax on top of personal tax...I am proof that you can get a living if you really want one.

I would say my role as a company director with no employees as present is a lot harder work than picking up litter... I certainly spend a lot more than 8 hours a day working!

This is the issue...people can't be bothered putting the time in, especially as, thanks to Labour, they can recieve more money on the dole than they can working, especially if they pump out a few kids!
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You are not even reading our posts are you?
 
86JR said:
Yes. People just don't want to do them!



2994 jobs there within just 20 miles of Plymouth which is a small city in Devon !!!
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Even if that figure represents a perfectly viable job for each vacancy, the population of Plymouth is approx 250, 000. If we use the national average percentage for unemployment; we can estimate that there are around 19, 000 unemployed people in Plymouth alone, ignoring the rest in the 20 mile radius.
http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Une...ntinues-fall/story-20337003-detail/story.html

The above link gives a figure of 4610, which is still a good deal higher than yours.
 
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You people just read what you want to read!

Anyone has the skill to start their own company. It is so easy! You don't even need to do the paperwork!

You think of something people want to buy, you find it, you sell it for a profit. Rinse and repeat. You don't even need a company to do it! I am pretty sure ANYONE could get a job if they wanted one.

It is not hypocrisy, I decided that litter picking was below me, so I found something else I could do instead. I didn't just sit there on my arse and choose to do nothing at all.
 
TheLegendOfMart said:
What?

You say you are too good for picking up litter then you go ahead and bash people who sit on benefits because they don't want to do jobs that you just said yourself you didn't want to do.

Having read a few of your posts it confirms my suspicion about the kind of person you are, well done you started a company, not everyone has the kind of skills or are in a position to do so.

Just because you did it, doesn't mean everyone else can do it.
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Yes, I am too good for picking up litter, and I am not on benefits. Surely you can see the correlation? If I had to choose, and there was no alternative, my self respect would not allow me to sit on benefits, I would be out there picking up your litter!
 
86JR said:
Let's face it, most of the problems were caused by Labour not having a clue what they are doing. But because they are the #1 party as far as the poor are concerned, they will be the party that gets in the most, simply due to there being more poor voters than rich voters. Also the poor are more clumped together, so as votes are ordered by constituents, ie areas, more votes will count.
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What a load of rubbish.

You do know that Labour & Conservative voters are pretty much equally represented in all economic groups (with a slight trend to what you would expect) - it's a myth that most of the rich vote for the Conservatives & the poor vote for Labour.

The reality is perceived social standing estimates voting habits much better (by what class an individual identifies with), with a trend for those in managerial positions being more right wing & skilled labour being more left (to which the incomes are not that different pending on the field).

The truth is the very poor don't vote that much at all for anybody.

Anything else you would like to make up?
 
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Dolph said:
Hence why I do not advocate removing the welfare state, but changing it to remove or minimise the problems it causes. No system can force people to work without massive authoritarian behaviour, but it can ensure that those in work will always be rewarded for it against those who do not, which is the big place where our current system falls down.
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Indeed I completely 100% agree with this and I think most reasonable people desire this state of affairs too. No one wants those on benefits to starve but the fact they can have as good (or thereabouts) standard of living as those who work is what infuriates most people.

How you implement such changes is the hard part though.
 
No1newts said:
Indeed I completely 100% agree with this and I think most reasonable people desire this state of affairs too. No one wants those on benefits to starve but the fact they can have as good (or thereabouts) standard of living as those who work is what infuriates most people.

How you implement such changes is the hard part though.
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I think one key point is this can be achieved numerous ways.

As a society we could easily rise the standard of living of low earners to make the difference between benefits & work greater - while maintaining the already modest standard of living those out of work live in.

To make work pay we don't need to punish those who are genuinely hard up, any punitive measures will most likely cost us more as a result of increased crime, poor public health & general reduced social cohesion.
 
Indeed I agree the wrong way to go about it is to punish those on the benefits but it is otherwise difficult to effect the change.

Raise minimum wage by a significant amount? A lot of companies may out source away from the UK to help margins. Lower tax on lower earners? The money needs to come from somewhere so the middle class will get abused again. The only reasonable way (IMO) is to force prices of everything down but I struggle to see how you could do this.

Are there others methods? I would be interested to year some if there are as I think it is an issue that needs addressed.
 
No1newts said:
The only reasonable way (IMO) is to force prices of everything down but I struggle to see how you could do this.
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If only there was some measure of how prices are rising and some body that was empowered with the means to significantly influence them and maintain them within certain bounds.
 
86JR said:
Anyone has the skill to start their own company. It is so easy! You don't even need to do the paperwork!
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Indeed, my gf quit her job, not claiming benefits (Couldn't even if she wanted to because she left rather then pushed) and is in the process of opening up her own restaurant.
 
I'm assuming you are referring to inflation but unless things go bonkers inflation tends to trim prices up and down as opposed to hacking then down which is what is needed.
 
No1newts said:
Indeed I agree the wrong way to go about it is to punish those on the benefits but it is otherwise difficult to effect the change.

Raise minimum wage by a significant amount? A lot of companies may out source away from the UK to help margins. Lower tax on lower earners? The money needs to come from somewhere so the middle class will get abused again. The only reasonable way (IMO) is to force prices of everything down but I struggle to see how you could do this.

Are there others methods? I would be interested to year some if there are as I think it is an issue that needs addressed.
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Punishing the poorest will not increase employment - the USA has almost no welfare state but very high unemployment, conversely many nations have significantly more generous welfare states & don't have problems with people sitting at home doing nothing.

The reality is, this 'problem' is mostly in the mind of the public, it views a number of statistical outliers as being the standard - it also ignores the fact they simply removing economic support is another choice which has it's own set of economic consequences.

If we slash benefits for those most vulnerable under the guise of an economic benefit - really we would have take into account the social & economic consequences of increasing poverty by a given percentage.

It's significantly cheaper to give a few dole dossers money for white lightening (to use the popular image of the UK poor) than it is to pay for the increase in crime & reduce social cohesion which would result in pushing these further into desperation.
 
robgmun said:
Indeed, my gf quit her job, not claiming benefits (Couldn't even if she wanted to because she left rather then pushed) and is in the process of opening up her own restaurant.
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How is someone who gets £50-60 a week meant to find the money to start their own business?

86JR said:
Yes, I am too good for picking up litter, and I am not on benefits. Surely you can see the correlation? If I had to choose, and there was no alternative, my self respect would not allow me to sit on benefits, I would be out there picking up your litter!
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Unlike you I actually help my local community by volunteering to pick up the crap people who are working throw out in their back alleys. I even volunteered to help clean up a local landmark which meant marching miles into the moors up a hill in bitterly cold weather to help paint it and get rid of graffiti.

I am not too good for any job, I would take anything at this moment. The last few interviews I went on they were up front and said there were hundreds of people applying for the job.

Funny how you think just because I am out of work and not finding thousands to start up my own company out of thin air that I am "sitting on my arse". Self righteous moron.
 
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