Advice on i5 or an AMD piledriver

[gpuerrilla]

You got it wrong again. The CPU bottlenecks the card, though I dont fully agree with martini on this one.

I think here the price point is an issue. £700-£800 is high end AMD vs Mid range Intel. Personally id pay for mid range Intel, die to the chips performance in all title, as I plat a broad range.

Though if the budget was less, AMD all the way.

I have been saying this all along by the way.

Who got it all wrong again?

It's not the first time someone doesn't fully agree with martin as he is such hard work.

You are right it is the price point that is the issue which is why the FX and the 290 wont apply here and definitely the i5.

The AMD is a great position for this price range, naysaying it nosedives or bottlenecks for the GPU card at this price point is waterwalking.

 

[Doomedspeed]

Sorry, what i meant by mid range is the 4670k, which can fit into a mid range (sub £800) build easy..

Yes, £600 and below the 6300 rules, i know that.. And around £700 the 8320 come into its own.. But £750 is where the 4670k can fit in..

I can find an overclocked benchmark for you: http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2012/11/06/amd-fx-8350-review/6 (i also posted this on page 1)..

The Haswell chip do overclock well too.. Though they may only reach 4.4, this is the sweetspot (well actually 4.5) for these chips. My 2500k (i know its an older gen) gives me a huge boost in FPS when overclocked (4.5). Around 10%-15%, which is astonishing.

I bet AMD chips are the same too..

Is this going to be a rant or a spec thread..

I've already spec, but it has seem to have got lost in the chaos.

Who got it all wrong again?

It's not the first time someone doesn't fully agree with martin as he is such hard work.

Andy was wrong, he said (twice) the card bottlenecking the chip were Matini clearly mentioned it the other way around.

Well, thats a bit rash, yes he's outspoken but there logic in his madness sometimes.

 

[gpuerrilla]

That makes perfect sense doomed. One I will not disagree with your pricing to cpu choice, totally concur.

The other posts are the usual retorts from guys who big up the same points over mythical scenarios. What the silverback chest beating about is beyond me but quite clearly seemed to have missed the point.

 

[Martini1991]

I just don't pussy foot.
I don't say anything Doomed doesn't (Evident by Thonty's sig), but because I'm outspoken.. Well...

And Th0nt's the one saying it wrong

I actually don't see anywhere I've said anything you'd disagree with in this thread though Doomed, enlighten me

 

[ALXAndy]

I wasn't the one who said the OP's budget was 800 quid or he could fit in an R9 290, that would be you.
I was saying Phix switched because of a bottleneck using an FX83 with an equally powered GPU (Which would be there on an FX83 system versus an i5 one)

700 quid is firmly R9 280X ground.

And it's FX will bottleneck the R9 290 (Which is a bad thing)

So now Phix isn't an AMD owner, he's a nut justifying his upgrade? Fickle bunch you lot

Can you explain what game was being held back by the FX?

I'm not doubting what you are saying, but it's a bit of a one liner that needs some foundation.

So apparently a guy had a bottle necking issue with a game, so upgraded to an I7. However, you've not put any important information to go with that claim.

There are many reasons a FX CPU could possibly bottle neck a GPU, however, it could be down to something as simple as using Windows 7 over Windows 8.

Once we know what game it is then there's a strong likelihood I can look into it.

 

[Doomedspeed]

I just don't pussy foot.
I don't say anything Doomed doesn't (Evident by Thonty's sig), but because I'm outspoken.. Well...

And Th0nt's the one saying it wrong

I actually don't see anywhere I've said anything you'd disagree with in this thread though Doomed, enlighten me

Oh sorry andy it has Th0nt all along,

I just don't think a 8320 will bottleneck a 290(x).. A 7990 i can see but not a 290(x).. 290(x) xfire is another issue all together.

Can we get to speccing now:

Intel: (the way id go in this situation)

YOUR BASKET
1 x Gigabyte Radeon R9 280X Rev1.0 WindForce 3X 3072MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card £254.99
1 x Intel Core i5-4670K 3.40GHz (Haswell) Socket LGA1150 Processor - OEM £169.99
1 x MSI Z87-G43 Intel Z87 (Socket 1150) DDR3 ATX Motherboard - FREE Alpenfohn Civetta Cooler!! £86.99
1 x Toshiba SSD HDTS212EZSTA 9.5mm 128GB Solid State Hard Drive - Retail £71.99
1 x GeIL Black Dragon 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C11 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (GD38GB1600C11DC) £59.99
1 x BeQuiet Pure Power L8 500W '80 Plus Bronze' Power Supply - With 120mm Silent Wing Fan Built in £53.99
1 x Seagate Barracuda 7200RPM 1TB SATA 6Gb/s 64MB Cache - OEM (ST1000DM003) HDD £47.99
1 x Corsair Carbide 200R Compact ATX Case - Black (CC-9011023-WW) £47.99
1 x OcUK 22x DVD±RW SATA ReWriter (Black) - OEM £17.99
Total : £821.50 (includes shipping : £8.00).



AMD

YOUR BASKET
1 x Gigabyte Radeon R9 280X Rev1.0 WindForce 3X 3072MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card £254.99
1 x AMD Piledriver FX-8 Eight Core 8320 Black Edition 3.50GHz (Socket AM3+) Processor - Retail £119.99
1 x Asus M5A97 EVO R2.0 AMD 970 (Socket AM3+) DDR3 Motherboard £79.99
1 x Toshiba SSD HDTS212EZSTA 9.5mm 128GB Solid State Hard Drive - Retail £71.99
1 x GeIL Black Dragon 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C11 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (GD38GB1600C11DC) £59.99
1 x BeQuiet Pure Power L8 500W '80 Plus Bronze' Power Supply - With 120mm Silent Wing Fan Built in £53.99
1 x Corsair Carbide 200R Compact ATX Case - Black (CC-9011023-WW) £47.99
1 x Seagate Barracuda 7200RPM 1TB SATA 6Gb/s 64MB Cache - OEM (ST1000DM003) HDD £47.99
1 x Silverstone Argon SST-AR01 CPU Cooler - 120mm £28.99
1 x OcUK 22x DVD±RW SATA ReWriter (Black) - OEM £17.99
Total : £793.49 (includes shipping : £8.00).



Both are mildy overclockable..

 

[Martini1991]

There's tons of games you'll not get 99% GPU usage, he didn't upgrade for a certain game I don't think, he posted his GPU usage with his FX8350 in games, saying he could get it as low as 60% (Because lets face it, unless you're a one game man, that's easy as hell to do)

 

[Martini1991]

Oh sorry andy it has Th0nt all along,

I just don't think a 8320 will bottleneck a 290(x).. A 7990 i can see but not a 290(x).. 290(x) xfire is another issue all together.

Can we get to speccing now:

Well, when the FX83's reviewed bottlenecking 7970's, why wouldn't they bottleneck 30% more GPU grunt?
If all you're running is BF4, an R9 290 will be fine with an FX83, but when you vary your games? You'll encounter bottlenecks.

 

[gpuerrilla]

I just don't pussy foot.
I don't say anything Doomed doesn't (Evident by Thonty's sig), but because I'm outspoken.. Well...

And Th0nt's the one saying it wrong

I actually don't see anywhere I've said anything you'd disagree with in this thread though Doomed, enlighten me

Martin I think that's great, I don't mind your opinion it's what the forums are about, we can all learn. Like I said above it's the plastic martin clones that are poor at posting that ruin the debates.

As Andy has just highlighted above more clarity is needed from this guy's situation. Going back to a week or two ago we were going to start benching or running games to prove certain swipes that people are coming out with - for now seems to have been forgotten about.

 

[Doomedspeed]

Well, when the FX83's reviewed bottlenecking 7970's, why wouldn't they bottleneck 30% more GPU grunt?
If all you're running is BF4, an R9 290 will be fine with an FX83, but when you vary your games? You'll encounter bottlenecks.

Ahh i get you, so its a question of the game itself...

It was just confusing as i'd seen 8320 with 7950 Xfire running BF4 with massive FPS but not seen it in other games..

I can see you're point of veiw on that now.

 

[gpuerrilla]

Oh sorry andy it has Th0nt all along,

I just don't think a 8320 will bottleneck a 290(x).. A 7990 i can see but not a 290(x).. 290(x) xfire is another issue all together.

Can we get to speccing now:..

Eh - it has Th0nt all along?

I agree with that statement about the 290, albeit signature man taking the objective side again.

Well, when the FX83's reviewed bottlenecking 7970's, why wouldn't they bottleneck 30% more GPU grunt?
If all you're running is BF4, an R9 290 will be fine with an FX83, but when you vary your games? You'll encounter bottlenecks.

When was the review? In fact link to it then we can see this. Driver improvements and other tweaks may correct such flaws.

 

[Martini1991]

Ahh i get you, so its a question of the game itself...

It was just confusing as i'd seen 8320 with 7950 Xfire running BF4 with massive FPS but not seen it in other games..

I can see you're point of veiw on that now.

As always

 

[Martini1991]

Martin I think that's great, I don't mind your opinion it's what the forums are about, we can all learn. Like I said above it's the plastic martin clones that are poor at posting that ruin the debates.

As Andy has just highlighted above more clarity is needed from this guy's situation. Going back to a week or two ago we were going to start benching or running games to prove certain swipes that people are coming out with - for now seems to have been forgotten about.

I literally don't get the time, it seems like a cop out, but it's really not.

I've literally got about 4 hours to myself at most on a day (And most of the time it's 2 and a half)

Do you know how long it'd actually take to do a full lot of testing with a number of games (And downloading those games from Steam) on both set ups and running them a sufficient amount to get actual meaningful figures?

 

[Tohrazer]

Hi, i didn't read through the entire thread as im sure it's degenerated into a huge argument by now, i will say this: intel cpu's perform better overall in games, im not talking about price/performance or anything like that, but on a simple level, they are (9 times out of 10 from what i've seen) better for gaming, even today some games are being released which only utilise 2 cores (it's not so common now), at which point it is beyond no contest. Games which use 4 cores (very common)

games which utilise 4+ cores, intel still have an advantage (the last time i checked) but the gap closes somewhat, and seems to (more or less) even out when 8 cores are used. Whilst AMD will serve you well (honestly, you'll be gpu bottlenecked anyway most likely) they do run hotter, draw more power, and per core are measurably less powerful.

would you notice the difference? almost certainly not, does price matter? get an AMD

does price not really matter? get an intel

if i were you id probably go with AMD in this particular instance.

 

[alex_123_fra]

Maybe go outside? It's nice out there you know....

I despair when I read your posts mate. Seriously, what are you smoking?

Posts of yours like post #46 demonstrates a serious lack of understanding of benchmarks and reviews. People reading them with less knowledge than us are likely to make decisions that are based on rubbish advice (i.e. yours) and spend far more than they need to on mid-range systems. Based on your comments, I should be really unhappy that my 3930k is only going to be 0.6 fps faster than an i3 2100 on Far Cry 3 (first graph) and will actually be slower than an i5 3550! Seriously, stop being totally idiotic.

To the OP, you need to be aware that there are a one or two members in this forum that are determined to put down FX Piledriver CPUs (either 6 or 8-core) due to their slower single-threaded performance. Whilst the latter is true compared to Sandy, Ivy and Haswell Intel CPUs, what is often forgotten is that FX CPUs overclock far better than non-delidded Ivy and Haswell i5s. In addition, in real world terms, there will be virtually no noticeable difference between an FX 8-core system an i5/i7 system unless in really specific situations (e.g. multi-GPU systems).

I have a high end Intel system (as per sig) and also an FX 8-core system which was previously paired with a 7990 and now a 780 classified. Even in single/2-threaded games like WoW and Skyrim (both of which I play a lot of), I honestly do not notice any difference between the 2 systems and both are run on ultra settings. Yes, I know that the 2 systems are run on different resolutions, but my FX system is quite representative of what a mid-range gamer would get.

I am lucky that a budget is almost never a consideration in what I buy but if I did have to think about budgets, I would not hesitate using and recommending a pildriver FX 6 or 8 core at the moment. More and more games are becoming heavily multithreaded and with Mantle out in almost 1-2 weeks, the FX CPUs will represent an even bigger bargain (the FX 8320 can be bought for <£110 new!). The money saved on them, is far better spent on a better single GPU in many cases.

 

[Doomedspeed]

does price matter? get an AMD

does price not really matter? get an intel

This is the issue, as you can see from my specs above.

They can come in at the same price point (either side of £800)

 

[almighty15]

You do realise you're making yourself look like an idiot with that quote in your sig son't you?

People who know me from other forums know that everything that quoted in your sig is true....

Let me explain..

I benchmarked and ran AMD CPU's, including the FX on a custom built 330w phase unit.

That enabled me to run voltages and clock speeds you boys can only dream of on a 24/7 basis.

And with how well AMD scales with the cold I also got a bump in clock speed just from the temperature drop alone.

Load temperature on the EVAP ( If you even know what one of those are ) was -40c under Intel Burn Test.

Secondly, that was done on a Crosshair 4 Extreme, which at the price I bought it at more then likely cost more then your CPU+Mobo.

Here is said motherboard with said phase unit attached.

Here's a quick temp read out while running Intel Burn Test.

So you keep embarrassing your self, it's funny.

Oh and I ditched the phase unit because even at super high 24/7 overclocks the 2500k that I replaced the AMD system rig was faster, even when running a mild overclock on water.

I was on another forum completely during these days which is why it's little known on here.

I've been there and done that with AMD, run overclocks on them people can't even get on even a high end water loop so I know first hand what they're capable as.

Although running the FX on phase was the first time I've actually seen a CPU consume more power then the compressor in my phase unit...

 

[almighty15]

I despair when I read your posts mate. Seriously, what are you smoking?

Posts of yours like post #46 demonstrates a serious lack of understanding of benchmarks and reviews. People reading them with less knowledge than us are likely to make decisions that are based on rubbish advice (i.e. yours) and spend far more than they need to on mid-range systems. Based on your comments, I should be really unhappy that my 3930k is only going to be 0.6 fps faster than an i3 2100 on Far Cry 3 (first graph) and will actually be slower than an i5 3550! Seriously, stop being totally idiotic.

You need to have some lessons to help you tell when someone is taking the ****.... my help you a little..

 

[Martini1991]

Shame you never got my cherry picked 1055T really

Also, that was when AMD was banging the "AM3 IS THE FUTURE, BULLDOZER IS FTW'S" drum, which adds context.

 

[gpuerrilla]

I despair when I read your posts mate. Seriously, what are you smoking?

Posts of yours like post #46 demonstrates a serious lack of understanding of benchmarks and reviews.

..Based on your comments, I should be really unhappy that my 3930k is only going to be 0.6 fps faster than an i3 2100 on Far Cry 3 (first graph) and will actually be slower than an i5 3550! Seriously, stop being totally idiotic.

To the OP, you need to be aware that there are a one or two members in this forum that are determined to put down FX Piledriver CPUs (either 6 or 8-core) due to their slower single-threaded performance.

..what is often forgotten is that FX CPUs overclock far better than non-delidded Ivy and Haswell i5s. In addition, in real world terms, there will be virtually no noticeable difference between an FX 8-core system an i5/i7 system..

I have a high end Intel system (as per sig) and also an FX 8-core system which was previously paired with a 7990 and now a 780 classified. Even in single/2-threaded games like WoW and Skyrim (both of which I play a lot of), I honestly do not notice any difference between the 2 systems and both are run on ultra settings.

The money saved on them, is far better spent on a better single GPU in many cases.

Slow clap for truth. Like I said where did this guy come from? Martin is he your flatmate? He creates a rod for his own back that's for sure.