Oh dear, the benefit scroungers are scared!

[robgmun]

...

Better than returning to the dark ages mind....

It wouldn't be far off, the Russell Brand lite type of comments from the loony left in these forums recently just shows how far removed from reality really are, i'll admit you're no where near as bad as most of them. But they're some real socialist wack jobs on here that would effectively want to see this country an over-ran wasteland.

 

[oulton]

It wouldn't be far off, the Russell Brand lite type of comments from the loony left in these forums recently just shows how far removed from reality really are, i'll admit you're no where near as bad as most of them. But they're some real socialist wack jobs on here that would effectively want to see this country an over-ran wasteland.

with your hick-right views I think the planet would be reduced to a smouldering tip if you had any actual power.

 

[robgmun]

If they were to turn to crime then, what stops them turning to crime alongside claiming benefits?

The correct answer is that a lot of them already do. The type that have the benefits lifestyle also habitually shoplift and steal.

 

[robgmun]

with your hick-right views I think the planet would be reduced to a smouldering tip if you had any actual power.

Every tory government ended with the country richer then it started, every labour government was poorer. So no, not even close

 

[elmarko]

It wouldn't be far off, the Russell Brand lite type of comments from the loony left in these forums recently just shows how far removed from reality really are, i'll admit you're no where near as bad as most of them. But they're some real socialist wack jobs on here that would effectively want to see this country an over-ran wasteland.

All I advocate is the use of evidence & the scientific method of problem solving to resolve social issues while minimising unnecessary human suffering.

It's not my fault facts tend to have a liberal bias.

 

[Caged]

We should cut benefits for everyone! If people want money they should get a job!
Actually JSA makes up a tiny percentage of the welfare bill. But there aren't enough jobs for all the people who are seeking them anyway.
Yes there are! Here's 2500 made up ones on the Government website.
Right, but those aren't actual jobs that exist. We need benefits to stop these people becoming homeless and turning to crime.
There's no need to become homeless or criminals, they could all just go and get jobs!

ad infinitum

If you're somehow jealous of benefit claimants getting a few hundred quid a month that you don't get, couldn't you just work harder and get paid more?

 

[oulton]

Every tory government ended with the country richer then it started, every labour government was poorer. So no, not even close

My god you are so deluded.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

Yes but that's because you are lapping up the benefits propaganda dished out by those in power to misdirect us from the real thieving in society.

No, it's not.

 

[elmarko]

Every tory government ended with the country richer then it started, every labour government was poorer. So no, not even close

Have you ever looked at debt to GDP charts over the last 50 years & compared the relative positions by political party?.

I'm guessing not.

Source: HM Treasury and UK Public Spending

Source: ONS

Looking at both charts you see no real deviation, you see two pronounced dips during the tenure of both political parties (mid 80's, early 00's), with the recent spike due to the global financial crisis - unless of course you blame Labour for that.

 

[Caged]

Have you ever looked at debt to GDP charts over the last 50 years & compared the relative positions by political party?.

I'm guessing not.

Sorry mate this is a knee-jerking emotion fuelled thread. Get your facts and statistics out of here.

Edit: But the graph is interesting. It's almost like if you purposely stagnate the economy people are less economically active and so you collect less tax, so you need to borrow more. Who would have seen that one coming.

 

[robgmun]

All I advocate is the use of evidence & the scientific method of problem solving to resolve social issues while minimising unnecessary human suffering.

It's not my fault facts tend to have a liberal bias.

Nothing wrong with that at all! I also like the idea technocracy as well. But as with communism the idea might have merit, but it completely ignores that greatest deciding factor on any society, human nature.

For example the quickest and best way to deal with todays energy crisis is to build more nuclear power stations, simple. But the scare mongering from the idiots at Greenpeace et all have rendered this mute.

 

[glenimp617]

I can't remember where I saw it (Panaroma, Sky News etc etc) but there was an article about people on benefits years ago.

I'll never forget the scene where they were interviewing a family who lived on a run down council estate. They were all sat in the front room moaning about how hard up they were. They couldn't afford food, clothes, school trips etc etc

They were really going on, then the best part happened. The cameraman slowly panned around to show the worlds biggest plasma TV sitting in the corner. It was without a doubt a 60"+ I burst out laughing, best piece of TV I've seen in a long time.

 

[elmarko]

Nothing wrong with that at all! I also like the idea technocracy as well. But as with communism the idea might have merit, but it completely ignores that greatest deciding factor on any society, human nature.

For example the quickest and best way to deal with todays energy crisis is to build more nuclear power stations, simple. But the scare mongering from the idiots at Greenpeace et all have rendered this mute.

You don't need to be in a technocracy/communism to implement the above, it just requires a public willing to vote based on facts & evidence - a public who demands it. This could easily be implemented in a capitalist system.

Norway is incredibly capitalist nation but enacts changes based on reasoned science instead of ideological tosh, this isn't a choice between communism & capitalism - it's a choice between using science & facts or just gut feeling & emotion.

You are also forgetting part of using the scientific method is the understanding of human nature & mitigating against it, but on the side appreciating how malleable our 'nature' is & that great change can be achieved in a short space of time given the right motivational incentives.

I'm not sure what environmentalism has to do with this discussion.

Will you concede based on the above data that your last point was incorrect (in the spirit of being in favour of facts & all that?)

 

[robgmun]

Well all of that seems entirely reasonable, expect the average Mr & Mrs Chav is as smart as a bag of rocks. So getting the public to vote based on facts & evidence without biased parties getting involved is impossible unless you legislate against it, and that would be one step too close to totalitarianism for me.

Also you can give as much data as you like, I'm talking through real life experience. Both times in recent history when Labour left power the country was almost in the ground. 1979 was positively frightening!!

 

[Ilikeitblackplease]

We should cut benefits for everyone! If people want money they should get a job!
Actually JSA makes up a tiny percentage of the welfare bill. But there aren't enough jobs for all the people who are seeking them anyway.
Yes there are! Here's 2500 made up ones on the Government website.
Right, but those aren't actual jobs that exist. We need benefits to stop these people becoming homeless and turning to crime.
There's no need to become homeless or criminals, they could all just go and get jobs!

ad infinitum

If you're somehow jealous of benefit claimants getting a few hundred quid a month that you don't get, couldn't you just work harder and get paid more?

The majority do not understand what is going on, example 2 years ago Tories came up with affordable rents, pushing social housing into the affordable bracket, now if you take the same flat social rents 30% local rents affordable 80% of market rents. now almost a 200% increase in rents for the same flat now re-listed as affordable rents.

The majority are on min wage, so now they have to find more in rents which pushes up housing benefits etc.. these homes have been paid 3 times over if not more.
60% of the welfare bill goes to pensioners, 5% goes too the unemployed and 35% goes to people on min wage.

It is easy for governments to point the finger at the unemployed, however you never hear about the corporate welfare, or you never hear them talk about tax avoidance. The latest is fracking, Do you know that fracking will indirectly benefit Cameron and other MPs.
They point you at an easy target so they can rinse the system legally and you'll never know about it, last year MPs voting in favor to claim expenses for there children did not hear any commotion etc..£2,425 for each child.

Between 2011 and 2012, Nigel Adams, the Tory MP for Selby and Ainsty, claimed £26,144. Mr Adams has four children and claims 70 per cent of the extra allowance for each of them. He said: “My children routinely stay with me in London. All my claims are transparent, published and within the rules.”
Chris Ruane, the Labour MP for the Vale of Clwyd, claims £1,906 a month for his London flat. He has two children and his eldest daughter turned 18 in November. He also owns a flat about three minutes’ walk away. Mr Ruane said: “I have acted completely within the rules.”

 

[Tefal]

That fat bird on benefits street - she is actually quite intelligent. I bet if she had the right educational background and came from a decent family she could be a good lawyer.

She had access to the exact same "educational.background" as everyone else the fact she squandered the opportunity doesn't make it everyone elses fault she's now useless

 

[elmarko]

Well all of that seems entirely reasonable, expect the average Mr & Mrs Chav is as smart as a bag of rocks. So getting the public to vote based on facts & evidence without biased parties getting involved is impossible unless you legislate against it, and that would be one step too close to totalitarianism for me.

Also you can give as much data as you like, I'm talking through real life experience. Both times in recent history when Labour left power the country was almost in the ground. 1979 was positively frightening!!

So you don't care about facts & will go with anecdotal evidence.

You do realise this kind of thinking is the problem you are talking about in the first paragraph.

 

[Ilikeitblackplease]

She had access to the exact same "educational.background" as everyone else the fact she squandered the opportunity doesn't make it everyone elses fault she's now useless

No she most likely did not.

 

[86JR]

And what is prison like "as it stands now?" I'd like to know your experiences of being inside bud.

A 2008 audit revealed that 12,948 game consoles were purchased for use in prisons with taxpayers’ money. The cost of the consoles and games totaled £221,726. In 2009, it was revealed that over 4,000 prisoners had satellite TVs in their cells. Under the current incentives program, 83,017 prisoners are also allowed to rent televisions for their cells as a reward for good behavior.

Source: The Independent

I have never been to prison mate. I pay my taxes, I help people in my community, and I don't do anything illegal.

86JR. Is it because you bought 11000 cds for 1 pound each, and they're now worth 8p each? Is that why you hate the poor?

I bought 11,000 CD's for £3k, and I sell them for £8 individualy. Do the math

Maybe he's just annoyed that he's paying taxes to fund them lounging around doing sod all?

I don't believe the majority of those on benefits are good and honest people. I think the majority are utterly worthless. It's the minority that are genuine cases of people who want to get on in life but for whatever reason have fallen on hard times.

This! Someone gets it!

 

[86JR]

We should cut benefits for everyone! If people want money they should get a job!
Actually JSA makes up a tiny percentage of the welfare bill. But there aren't enough jobs for all the people who are seeking them anyway.
Yes there are! Here's 2500 made up ones on the Government website.
Right, but those aren't actual jobs that exist. We need benefits to stop these people becoming homeless and turning to crime.
There's no need to become homeless or criminals, they could all just go and get jobs!

ad infinitum

If you're somehow jealous of benefit claimants getting a few hundred quid a month that you don't get, couldn't you just work harder and get paid more?

I am angry that my taxes are wasted on people who can't be bothered to work.

IF I work harder and get paid more, I will just be paying even more taxes, infact my tax % will RISE so I will be paying for even more people who can't be bothered to work!

I already pay 20% in tax for profit my company makes BEFORE I pay myself anything! If I work harder, and make more profit, this alone rises to 26%!