I work in a garage, we have just bought some new diagnostic gear, cost of £6000.00 plus sending techs on courses and further software updates. Quite often we will get people coming in saying my mate as code read the management system, ie SRS, ABS or Engine management and give us the code and tell us to replace the sensor, I say that we will have to diagnose the system and it will cost them £60 which 9 times out of 10 they don't want to pay. Which comes down to the main problem, with the major investment in good quality diagnostics the cost as to reequipped, modern vehicles have so many systems that run through the car that sometimes it can take a long time to diagnose, and we refuse to work for nothing, like all business if we don't cover the costs and make a profit we will be out of business.
How often do garages mis-diagnose faults?
- Thread starter -Mike-
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So you tell them you have to charge them £60 for a diagnosis just to cover your new expensive diagnostics machine, even though they've just asked you to do some work for them? Why?
Why not just say "ok, we'll do that for you, but obviously we are just replacing this part for you, we don't know whether that will fix it as we haven't had chance to look at it ourselves and diagnose it"
I'm sorry to say it but this whole "we'll have to diagnose your car and it'll be £ridiculous" has gone on for far too long. Some dealers charge £120 to plug the car into a computer. £120!! It's scandalous and one of the biggest scams going in the motoring world.
There's a BMW specialist near me who charges £30ish to read fault codes including the proprietary BMW ones, which i feel is proportionate to the work being carried out. I'm willing to bet a lot, lot more people would be happy to pay £30 for fault code read, than £60 as it is much more reasonable.
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Exactly, you've just hit the nail on the head. I work with a Senior Electronics engineer at my place of work (Audio AV) and he does not give away all the faults he has found over the years to the "monkeys" as he calls them as he has been "stung" in the past so to speak as he says.
He knows complex faults not even Toshiba, Vestel, Panasonic don't even have a clue about because they don't care.
He is the one who builds tests rigs and finds faults all day and saves circuits diagrams with the faulty components for his reference.
Mostly though, this is because he can do "foreigners" outside of work and make a bit of extra money due to his hard work.
He took me under his wing because I took an interest and it's finally paying off.
We live in a society where things are wasted MatteH because going down to component level takes too much time or the person investigating the fault just isn't competent in this level of fault finding, it is normal now a days.
There are some guys at my place who can't even do a diode check, or even check a bridge! As expected, they are on contracts were board replacement is available.
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrf6f8hn5oy4alB2WXJCIqA
This chap is amazing & deserves every credit for sharing his vast automotive experience.
O.K., he makes money from it but he replies quite often to individual questions on youtube and comes across as genuinely passionate about sharing his knowledge. Some of the videos have helped me with a couple of things I wasn't sure of i.e. 4 wire coil on plug circuits & wideband O2 sensor testing on my Alfa.
He takes you beyond the fault codes and the "it's so-and-so sensor at fault" approach and shows you how to test the entire circuit to make sure that it really is the problem.
Recommended video:
This chap is amazing & deserves every credit for sharing his vast automotive experience.
O.K., he makes money from it but he replies quite often to individual questions on youtube and comes across as genuinely passionate about sharing his knowledge. Some of the videos have helped me with a couple of things I wasn't sure of i.e. 4 wire coil on plug circuits & wideband O2 sensor testing on my Alfa.
He takes you beyond the fault codes and the "it's so-and-so sensor at fault" approach and shows you how to test the entire circuit to make sure that it really is the problem.
Recommended video:
Wait a minute - You went to the internet and found a solution? Why did you not ask someone who knew more than you? Should have taken it to the garage mate - they never mess up.
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Yes, but it's a proper solution & test procedure that you clearly don't understand. He isn't a forum parts swapping genius like yourself
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I swear some garages wouldn't even know what an oscilloscope is if one jumped out at them!
Then their management should be making them document their knowledge in some form of knowledge management system for their current and future colleagues.
Then their management should be making them document their knowledge in some form of knowledge management system for their current and future colleagues.
in reply to Gaygle, most of the time the person that reads the code is someone who has a cheap codereader off ebay, charges them £10, thats the fault, they come to us with the part that the code reader says is the fault, ask us to put it in, and clear the codes, code won't clear, then they shout because they just paid for a bit they don't need and hasn't fixed the problem seen it loads of time, yes we charge £60 for diagnostics, and we generally get it right, this is because re invest in the right equipment.
Has for main dealers charging so much you will probably find that they do not make has much you think out of it, the equipment is generally leased from manufacturers who charge a lot for it every month, at the last main dealer I worked at the computer worked out at £1500.00 lease a month add to that the techs training at £2 or 3000. pounds a course, you really have no idea of costs involved and the amount of training involved in the diagnostics of modern vehicles.
Has for main dealers charging so much you will probably find that they do not make has much you think out of it, the equipment is generally leased from manufacturers who charge a lot for it every month, at the last main dealer I worked at the computer worked out at £1500.00 lease a month add to that the techs training at £2 or 3000. pounds a course, you really have no idea of costs involved and the amount of training involved in the diagnostics of modern vehicles.
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I've not had a good experience with toyota over the years, 1st with a Yaris MMT (semi auto) all it needed was the actuator recalibrating, they tried to charge me for new ECU and Actuator. Then we've had problems when they've misdiagnosed turbos/pumps/injectors. I think they are lost when it comes to real fault finding and old fashioned engineering/mechanics skills have long been lost!
You aren't a mechanic anymore either are you. The whole thread was asking how often people think garages misdiagnose. I backed up the reason for asking with a statement. If you understood the testing and procedure so well perhaps you should have just done it instead of having to look on the internet
You don't know me, or what I do for a living so kindly jog on with your snide insult
A guy at work told me about his friend who thinks http://www.swapz.co.uk/ is a good place to find cars.
His most recent disaster is a bug eye Impreza. I was told about a month ago it had a steering rack issue and whether i knew how much that would cost to change.
Wind forward to this weekend and the car has given up during a "Paul Walker Tunnel Run", allegedly a broken diff.
So a few questions later and the broken diff was lack of drive, lots of noise when clutch brought up and the same steering rack vibration from last month
Ill bet money now that the car has destroyed an inner cv joint, hence drive issues and noise and hence vibrations through car on engine load. Two different "garages" have diagnosed it as a steering rack (and the car continued to be driven for well over a month after) and another garage diagnosed the diff.
So if they were stupid enuogh not to find the damaged joint which pulling out the diff and steering rack, hed be looking at thousands spent on misdiagnosis
His most recent disaster is a bug eye Impreza. I was told about a month ago it had a steering rack issue and whether i knew how much that would cost to change.
Wind forward to this weekend and the car has given up during a "Paul Walker Tunnel Run", allegedly a broken diff.
So a few questions later and the broken diff was lack of drive, lots of noise when clutch brought up and the same steering rack vibration from last month
Ill bet money now that the car has destroyed an inner cv joint, hence drive issues and noise and hence vibrations through car on engine load. Two different "garages" have diagnosed it as a steering rack (and the car continued to be driven for well over a month after) and another garage diagnosed the diff.
So if they were stupid enuogh not to find the damaged joint which pulling out the diff and steering rack, hed be looking at thousands spent on misdiagnosis