Sainsbury's Parking Ticket

GeForce said:
Agreed, it was on the sign. My point was that when I left the car, I did not know that I was breaking the rules. Now since I took the time to read the sign to check the time limit, the fact that I did not see the driver restriction (perhaps) implies that it was not stated clearly enough.

There is some tiny writing at the bottom of the sign in the third picture in my OP. If "driver must remain with vehicle" was in this font size, it would be unacceptable. So, where's the line?

Thank you for the legal stuff, I was aware that just ignoring it is probably not the way to go since the rules have changed. I will therefore not ignore it, I will either contest it or pay up.
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What about the big bit that said 'NO PARKING'. You parked, you didn't wait. I'm not being an ass but come on, it is clearly on the sign.

I drove into London last year and wasn't sure I was in congestion charging area because I missed the signs. I got a £60 ticket. It was my **** up, I paid the bill and moved on. I got nicked for doing 70 in a 50, it was my **** up, I paid the bill. I got flashed for driving down a bus lane in Plymouth, it was my **** up I paid the bill.

I could go on. I'm not having a go at you OP, it's just this entire society seems to be moving towards getting off things when they do wrong. Sure, some things are annoying, some things are stupid, but we need to take responsibility when we **** up, for we all do not try and find every single reason not to take the fine. I'm the last person to talk about driving everywhere at the speed limit, I roll the dice and hope I get away with it like most people but if I don't I spend no time trying to find loop holes to get out of it.
 
It clearly says waiting, getting out of the car to get some money out is not waiting, it is a bit sneaky to have further details in small print but the waiting bit is pretty obvious as to what it eludes to.
 
Assuming it is a private parking company then fight it based on the fact that a private company is not allowed to issue a fine and can only charge you for financial loss incurred by unauthorised parking. It clearly must be a fine because they can have incurred no difference in loss with you not in the car compared to being with the car.
 
lemonade said:
It clearly says waiting, getting out of the car to get some money out is not waiting, it is a bit sneaky to have further details in small print but the waiting bit is pretty obvious as to what it eludes to.
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A double yellow line is a waiting restriction, a holder of a blue badge can wait on a double yellow line for 3 hours, must they remain in the vehicle whilst doing so?

What is the legal difference between waiting and parking?
 
Housey said:
What about the big bit that said 'NO PARKING'. You parked, you didn't wait. I'm not being an ass but come on, it is clearly on the sign.

I drove into London last year and wasn't sure I was in congestion charging area because I missed the signs. I got a £60 ticket. It was my **** up, I paid the bill and moved on. I got nicked for doing 70 in a 50, it was my **** up, I paid the bill. I got flashed for driving down a bus lane in Plymouth, it was my **** up I paid the bill.

I could go on. I'm not having a go at you OP, it's just this entire society seems to be moving towards getting off things when they do wrong. Sure, some things are annoying, some things are stupid, but we need to take responsibility when we **** up, for we all do not try and find every single reason not to take the fine. I'm the last person to talk about driving everywhere at the speed limit, I roll the dice and hope I get away with it like most people but if I don't I spend no time trying to find loop holes to get out of it.
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Are you alright tonight Housey? Normally your posts are funny, not scary! :p

I think that yes, the OP parked in the waiting zone when he shouldn't have done and yes he should have checked the signage better.

However where i have exception to this is the fact that £60 is a large fine for such a small infraction. Would you have attempted to contest your Congestion Charge fine, on the grounds that the signage wasn't clear enough, if it had been for £6000? I daresay you would have considered it.

If Sainsbury's are going to start handing out such large fines to their customers for small parking infractions, besides the unreasonable charge argument, i suggest that they should invest in some much more clear signage.
 
DavidMarq said:
A double yellow line is a waiting restriction, a holder of a blue badge can wait on a double yellow line for 3 hours, must they remain in the vehicle whilst doing so?

What is the legal difference between waiting and parking?
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A person waits, a car doesn't, that is the difference and that is what a court would state. Of course I suspect you would say, from your nice comfy internets that "well you could fight this" but any sane person would no that would just be daft, like the bloke who is currently 250K down fighting PC World. Yea we all want him to win, but that's because PC World is full on **** heads not because we really know WTF he is moaning about.
 
Gaygle said:
Are you alright tonight Housey? Normally your posts are funny, not scary! :p

I think that yes, the OP parked in the waiting zone when he shouldn't have done and yes he should have checked the signage better.

However where i have exception to this is the fact that £60 is a large fine for such a small infraction. Would you have attempted to contest your Congestion Charge fine, on the grounds that the signage wasn't clear enough, if it had been for £6000? I daresay you would have considered it.

If Sainsbury's are going to start handing out such large fines to their customers for small parking infractions, besides the unreasonable charge argument, i suggest that they should invest in some much more clear signage.
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But it wasn't it was £60. To me £60 is small change so don't see the issue. If it's was 50p I dare say the deterrent would be somewhat diminished.
 
Oh and I'm fine, just surrounded by people (no inference to our OP here I hasten to add) by people who seem unwilling to take personal responsibility and I am venting it here. :)
 
Housey said:
A person waits, a car doesn't, that is the difference and that is what a court would state. Of course I suspect you would say, from your nice comfy internets that "well you could fight this" but any sane person would no that would just be daft, like the bloke who is currently 250K down fighting PC World. Yea we all want him to win, but that's because PC World is full on **** heads not because we really know WTF he is moaning about.
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Waiting restrictions apply to vehicles not people otherwise they could not be restricted to a particular class of vehicle.
 
Housey said:
But it wasn't it was £60. To me £60 is small change so don't see the issue. If it's was 50p I dare say the deterrent would be somewhat diminished.
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Would that I were in your position. I'm a student and £60 is a significant amount of money to me.

£60 does indeed seem unreasonable, and as quite a few people have said, a reasonable grounds for contesting.

I'm not denying that I was in the wrong, just that the punishment for such is not proportionate to the crime. Money Saving Expert forums seem to suggest that the legal phrasing of this is:

The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner
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DavidMarq said:
A double yellow line is a waiting restriction, a holder of a blue badge can wait on a double yellow line for 3 hours, must they remain in the vehicle whilst doing so?

What is the legal difference between waiting and parking?
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Not sure about legal differences, it's a bit complicated and I don't know all the ins and outs, but on some doubles I'm sure your allowed to stop to load and unload.

Blue badge holders have some kind of different restrictions, they are allowed to park on double yellows rather than wait.

This is a private car park though with their own rules, and their rules clearly state waiting only which involves the driver waiting in the car.
 
GeForce said:
Would that I were in your position. I'm a student and £60 is a significant amount of money to me.

£60 does indeed seem unreasonable, and as quite a few people have said, a reasonable grounds for contesting.

I'm not denying that I was in the wrong, just that the punishment for such is not proportionate to the crime. Money Saving Expert forums seem to suggest that the legal phrasing of this is:
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The answer is staring you in the face then. Read the sign and you will be £60 better off. The circle will keep coming back to the same point I fear. :)
 
lemonade said:
Not sure about legal differences, it's a bit complicated and I don't know all the ins and outs, but on some doubles I'm sure your allowed to stop to load and unload.

Blue badge holders have some kind of different restrictions, they are allowed to park on double yellows rather than wait.

This is a private car park though with their own rules, and their rules clearly state waiting only which involves the driver waiting in the car.
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There is nothing in law that says a blue badge holder can park on a double yellow line. What the law does state is that they must be provided with an exemption in the traffic regulation order from the waiting restriction.

As I pointed out before remaining in the vehicle was not one of the "following conditions" to which the £60 charge applied.
 
DavidMarq said:
It is relevant to you stating "a person waits, a car doesn't"
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Nah, that still makes sense, it's just definitions make exceptions to the rule, not change the fact that most courts would say if you left your car you were not waiting you were parked, unless you were X, Y, Z, which are allowed to. Again, it's irrelevant to this point unless you seek to share case law to support the debate the OP has?
 
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