I admit I'm rubbish at budgeting. But why....

estebanrey said:
I'm desperately trying to manage my finances better and having a banking app is awesome but when the amount and the detail are constantly different is becomes a nightmare because when I have less than expected, I can't tell why for a couple of days as I can't track my spending.
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Its not really a nightmare, you just spend money on stuff and forget you did it. Thats an issue with you and nothing else. Blame technology all you like if it makes you feel better though :p

Banks tend to update the transactions either at 5pm or 12am for things outwith a simple cash withdrawal from a machine which show up instantly.
 
estebanrey said:
I can check my balance, walk into a shop and spend some money, then check again on my phone the second I walk out of the shop and my balance will be updated which is brilliant, but then if I go on to my account and look at the detailed list the last one on there is from a day or two ago.
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How do you forget that you just bought something in the shop you are stood outside ? Are you a goldfish ? :p
 
estebanrey said:
No I'm asking a technological question. I was hoping someone actually knew why this was.
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Unless there is someone here who works in IT for Barclays and has knowledge of their IT infrastructure then you are not going to get a complete answer. However, I'm guessing that their mobile platform and web site get their data from two separate feeds. The data is pushed to the web site at a later date than the mobile platform. This could be because the web site sits on an older legacy system, while the mobile platform is built using a newer method.
 
Download microsoft money - it's free.

You can then log all your regular out goings and income.

You can also create a budget planner of all your known ins and outs - you can then decide how much you've got a month to socialise with or do non regular/secheduled activities. IT's a ballache to start up, but once you've got it and keep it up to date it helps you save, give you cash projections and extrapolates data based on the activity of your accounts and credit cards.

IT's a simple programme and the forecasting tools are simple but effective.

Alternatively you could write a spreadsheet - which is fun (if you like excel) but time consuming.

Then you won't have to worry about why it's not appearing on your statement immediately, and you'll know it's there and you won't even need to check your balance anymore as you'll know what you've got.
 
Whilst this would be a nice feature it isnt really something I have thought about, what I hate most about the Barclays app (which is generally excellent) is that there is no running balance. It was there, then they removed it, then they put it back and then they removed it again.

I liked that feature as I could look at my balance for the 20th of this month and then compare it to the same date on the previous month to double check if I had to be a bit more careful or could treat myself based on how much more I spent the previous month :)
 
You said you were rubbish at budgeting - people were trying to help. Either express yourself better or be grateful for the help that people were offering you.
 
Freefaller said:
You said you were rubbish at budgeting - people were trying to help. Either express yourself better or be grateful for the help that people were offering you.
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Given that comprised about 1% of the entire statement I made and my question was clearly why statements can't be instant, I'd have just preferred more answers concentrated on the question I asked and not the supporting reason for why I'm asking it that's all.

I guess it's today's way, read the first few words or just the title and skim the rest.
 
Typical tabloid headline - draw the people in, and then actually have nothing to do with the subject of the headline ;) You should work for the daily fail! :p
 
estebanrey said:
Given that comprised about 1% of the entire statement I made and my question was clearly why statements can't be instant, I'd have just preferred more answers concentrated on the question I asked and not the supporting reason for why I'm asking it that's all.

I guess it's today's way, read the first few words or just the title and skim the rest.
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Why did you not just ask that question then?
 
Cause managing money is really hard.

and to answer your technological question.... it's more then like to show on your statement when the money is cleared from your account and into there's.. not from when the purchase was made..

I can ask my boss if it's bothering you so much? He was a bank manager at NatWest for 8 years I'm sure he will know? or have u tried Google? Google is your friend.
 
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Westie said:
Cause managing money is really hard.
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I detect your sarcasm but actually it is a skill that not everyone has and is dependent on how many transactions you have coming in and out.

It also depends on how you want to live your life, I know some people that spend a lot of time managing their money with spreadsheet and programs which I find extremely tedious and something you need impeccable discipline for, forget to update for a day and it's wrong.

And to clarify, I'm not completely useless. I know the amounts that are coming out every month for things that always come out and account for them. It's more my disposable income that I take a more laissez faire attitude to.

All I'm saying is that with modern technology, there is no reason I can see why all can't transfers can't be instant and that information be instant to the user as well. Imagine receiving a text but all you get is the content and have to wait two days for the sender to show up? Would you find that acceptable in today's modern world?
 
Debit Cards
When I make a debit card transaction, does the money leave my account straight away? When does the money reach the retailer?
A debit card transaction will usually be debited from your account on the following working day. However, if the amount of the transaction is above the floor limit of that retailer, the card issuer will earmark the funds on your account at the time the transaction is made. The time it takes for the money to reach the retailer is dependent upon the terms of the contract with their merchant acquirer (bank).
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http://www.paymentscouncil.org.uk/resources_and_publications/faqs/debit_cards/
 
I don't think the payment is cleared instantly, it's authorised and the funds are set aside by your bank but payment might take 24 hours to clear. It's nothing to do with technology because I can transfer money to someone and it shows up on their statement in a matter of minutes. I'm sure someone will have a better explanation.
 
cymatty said:
http://www.paymentscouncil.org.uk/resources_and_publications/faqs/debit_cards/
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Cheers, but the question to that is why? It's not like at the end of the day one of the bank employees has to bundle a load of notes together and then has to drive to each of the retailers in town handing out brown envelopes. It's is a set of numbers disappearing from one computer and appearing on another.

To answer my own question, the only thing I can think of is that the banks use the 'limbo' period to gain interest on the amounts pending before sending it.

I remember a BBC documentary a few years back that was asking why cheques take up to 5 working days to clear. They went to Sweden where cheques were instant and as good as cash. The reason they gave for UK banks not doing the same was because what actually happened was the bank took the money that minute, put it in a holding fund where it gains interest for the bank before releasing the original amount to the payee. Guess it's the same with debit card transactions.

I've also noticed that bank charges do come out and appear instantly, which supports the above theory given there is no advantage to holding an amount you owe them in limbo.
 
When you use your debit card the request is made to your bank and the monies may be earmarked on your account depending on who you bank with. However the actual payment is not processed immediately (irrespective of who you bank with) and the payment details are stored and processed as a batch along with all the other (millions) of transactions that bank has accrued that day. There is also not only one batch but usually many (incoming payments, outgoing payments, interest payments etc) all being run overnight. Many of these batches are dependent on each other and so the time taken to complete them is longer than you might think. So although the funds might show as having left your account, the full details wont come through until the outgoing batch has finished as well as the incoming batch with details of the transaction from the retailers bank as well.

There is increasing pressure to move towards 24x7 processing of payment transactions with the increase in mobile and online banking but the development costs and time are huge!

The recent RBS and Natwest problems are a good example of this.

It is not done to accrue interest but simply because the sheer volume of transactions coupled with the cobbled together legacy systems used by many of the banks make processing each individual payment instantly unfeasible.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-trust-the-banks-to-look-after-our-money.html

http://www.bobsguide.com/guide/news...ge-will-soon-get-the-better-of-the-banks.html

For the record I work in IT Services for a Bank.

/Salsa
 
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Salsa said:
When you use your debit card the request is made to your bank and the monies may be earmarked on your account depending on who you bank with. However the actual payment is not processed immediately (irrespective of who you bank with) and the payment details are stored and processed as a batch along with all the other (millions) of transactions that bank has accrued that day. There is also not only one batch but usually many (incoming payments, outgoing payments, interest payments etc) all being run overnight. Many of these batches are dependent on each other and so the time taken to complete them is longer than you might think. So although the funds might show as having left your account, the full details wont come through until the outgoing batch has finished as well as the incoming batch with details of the transaction from the retailers bank as well.

There is increasing pressure to move towards 24x7 processing of payment transactions with the increase in mobile and online banking but the development costs and time are huge!

The recent RBS and Natwest problems are a good example of this.

It is not done to accrue interest but simply because the sheer volume of transactions coupled with the cobbled together legacy systems used by many of the banks make processing each individual payment instantly unfeasible.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-trust-the-banks-to-look-after-our-money.html

http://www.bobsguide.com/guide/news...ge-will-soon-get-the-better-of-the-banks.html

For the record I work in IT Services for a Bank.

/Salsa
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Firstly, thank you for your expertise. Now to probe what you've said :p

I can understand there are millions on transactions happening everyday, however even the cheapest of modern processors is capable of processing millions of calculations per second so I still don't see why it's such a big issue in terms of complication.

When you talking about "processing a batch" isn't this simply subtracting from one line of a database and adding to another and something a computer should be able to do in nanoseconds?

How come if a friend of mine transfers me money from his account online it appears in my bank immediately and can be withdrawn that second?

If what you've said is true, then if I had say £10 in my account then how come I can't withdraw it from a cash machine then put my card straight back in and withdraw it again before the "batch" has been processed, why does it tell me "insufficient funds" on the second attempt (which implies the processing has been done)?

Finally can you understand how it appears to the laymen that the bank have technology to stop you or I overspending our limits instantly but not to simply provide that information back in the same time frame?
 
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If the funds are transferred online then it is likely to be a faster payments transaction.

See http://www.fasterpayments.org.uk/about-us/how-faster-payments-works

If you use your card then the transaction is handled by a payments provider such as Visa or Worldpay.

What this means is that the retailer has an agreement in place with a bank (referred to as the acquirer) for accepting and processing payments.

When you use your card the amounts are checked and authorised with your bank but it is the acquirer (the merchants bank) who stumps up the money to pay the merchant. The details of the transaction are sent to Visa who pass these on to the issuer (cardholders bank) who re-checks the transaction authorises it and then reimburse the acquirer. Once this has all happened then the money is debited from your account and transaction will show up on your statement.

See http://usa.visa.com/merchants/new-acceptance/how-visa-transactions-work.html
and http://www.worldpay.com/products/index.php?page=how

When using Cash Machines it is the organisation who owns the cash machine who asks your bank whether you have sufficient funds or not and pays out initially. Then your bank will double check the transaction and reimburse them within 24-48 hours before debiting the amount from your account.

Batch processing is used because it is so much more efficient to process all the payments info in bulk than individually, even with modern hardware. Batch jobs can still take several hours to run and are often dependant on files coming in from other banks/processing agencies etc. There is just no cost effective and efficient way to process each transaction individually.

See http://www.computerweekly.com/opini...ing-is-the-new-sexy-for-financial-services-IT

While this is not my particular area of expertise (I work in IT Change Management) I hope that sheds some light on how your bank works at a fairly basic level.

Want to know more about payments? Knock yourself out!
/Salsa
 
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