Tyres aren't ditch finders bad drivers are!
- Thread starter jej_knowles
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To be fair one year on I still have not managed to find the ditch with my £50 tyres on the A4 S-Line.
Not my finest hour but at the time had no choice, but to be honest stopped ok when needed to emergency brake on the motorway when a car suddely braked to a halt from 80mph, and also able to stop when a child ran out in front of me at 40mph.
I may be lucky and in another instance may be a different story, however I must admit for the tyres I am using at the moment I would be tempted to use again.
Not my finest hour but at the time had no choice, but to be honest stopped ok when needed to emergency brake on the motorway when a car suddely braked to a halt from 80mph, and also able to stop when a child ran out in front of me at 40mph.
I may be lucky and in another instance may be a different story, however I must admit for the tyres I am using at the moment I would be tempted to use again.
You're driving 70MPH on a dual carriage way, when suddenly a deer runs out in front of you.
You try to perform an emergency stop.
At this point would you rather have the decent tyres or the £20/corner ditch finders?
Or are you suggesting that in this scenario, the person with the rubbish tyres is a rubbish driver for driving this fast?
I'd be inclined to argue that someone is a rubbish driver purely because they decide to fit ditch finders in the first place.
You try to perform an emergency stop.
At this point would you rather have the decent tyres or the £20/corner ditch finders?
Or are you suggesting that in this scenario, the person with the rubbish tyres is a rubbish driver for driving this fast?
I'd be inclined to argue that someone is a rubbish driver purely because they decide to fit ditch finders in the first place.
SkodaMart
SkodaMart
lol!
A troll?
He speaks the truth, vans and trucks are totally different to cars and require a different approach.
A transit van will never stop like a small hatchback.
The point with 'ditch finders' is If you have a powerful car as most are today.
(I had a MK1 XR2 which had a massive 84 BHP)
It seems silly to drive at motorway speeds in poor weather conditions and then fit 'cheap tyres'
If you drive everywhere at a speed that would not overwhelm even cheap tyres it defeats the object of having a powerful car - you may as well buy a 1000cc
Man of Honour
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Good point. However, if you improve the tyres then by your very point you improve the grip available allowing you to modify your driving accordingly.
So in effect better tyres = less issues with grip + more predictability + less chance of finding a ditch.
So you've basically trolled your own point! Congrats.
It's easy enough to alter you driving to make up for most deficiencies in a car, but with tyres why bother as the cost between excellent and crap is pretty insignificant in terms of overall running costs. eg on Blackcircles 225/45/17 tyres range from £53.70 from their own brand crap to £113.96 for a Conti sport 5.
Oddly enough he's kind of right, if you drive like an idiot then your tyres will only do so much to help you.
SkodaMart
SkodaMart
All tyres even the cheapest have a level of grip.
When this level of grip is exceeded they become dangerous - same with the best tyres.
A family car driven slowly so as not to exceed the grip of it's budget tyres is not unsafe IMO.
The problem occurs when you fit cheap tyres to your Porsche and wonder why you are travelling backwards up the Snake Pass in the wet.
Bit simplistic, I get the point you are trying to make, but such a simple black and white argument is a weak one.
Of course, but the point is, it doesn't matter in an emergency stop. Because rather than adapting to the road ahead and adjusting your speed/braking time accordingly, you are just trying to pull up as quickly as possible.
Hence, the argument that poor tyres are fine as long as you drive accordingly is not a justification for fitting cheap, crappy tyres, because it's not always possible.
It's also a false economy, as others have said. You might save yourself 30 quid a tyre, but is it worth it when a decent set might mean the difference between stopping just in time and ending up in someone's boot?
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SkodaMart
SkodaMart
Modern cars perform well.
It was a big deal if your car would do 100MPH when I started driving.
If you intend to drive at motorway speeds I would suggest good tyres.
Drive 3 miles to the supermarket once a week in standing traffic? You could probably do that on remoulds.
It was a big deal if your car would do 100MPH when I started driving.
If you intend to drive at motorway speeds I would suggest good tyres.
Drive 3 miles to the supermarket once a week in standing traffic? You could probably do that on remoulds.
Man of Honour
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But what about people who DO understand limits and know what a good and bad tyre can bring to the driving dynamic of the vehicle? If the entire car industry and the motorsport world spend 100s of millions in R&D on tyre technology there must be a reason behind it.
Tyres make a big difference to the handling of a car.
Common sense and being sensible prevents silly things from occurring - i.e. driving with your, and the vehicles limits.
Obviously driving beyond the limits regardless of tyre make is going to lead to bad things.
However, all this is just plain common sense isn't it?
Tyres make a big difference to the handling of a car.
Common sense and being sensible prevents silly things from occurring - i.e. driving with your, and the vehicles limits.
Obviously driving beyond the limits regardless of tyre make is going to lead to bad things.
However, all this is just plain common sense isn't it?
SkodaMart
SkodaMart
A van shouldn't be travelling as fast as a car (lol)
I know that doesn't happen!
But a good driver will leave a gap so that he is able to stop safely.
If something suddenly appears in front of you, that can happen to the best cars, best tyres and best drivers.
A Porsche will stop far better than any car I have ever owned but that doesn't make it safer for one moment.
Man of Honour
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But that's just common sense, driving within the limits and you'll be fine. It's a bit of a troll-thread.
I do get the point of what he's implying, about adapting your driving, but surely his approach should have been a little less inflammatory. Besides, it's beyond common sense.
SkodaMart
SkodaMart
Probably could. Wouldn't want to though, when you're doing 25MPH along a high street and a kid runs out in front of you.
Those tyres which were once fine just trundling along are could suddenly mean the difference between life and death.
His argument is predicated on the fact that the driver always controls his/her circumstance when in reality it's not that simple. We can all drive defensively, we can all leave gaps and follow appropriate speed. We can all drive within these constraints but sometimes we can come across a circumstance, let's use diesel around a blind bend as our example, when no matter how well you drive you can get caught out. At which point the effectiveness of your kit has a greater impact than your ability behind the wheel.
I've seen incredibly stupid arguments on this very forum when someone had a crash around a blind bend because they came around the bend to find a tractor pulling out and couldn't stop. So people chime in with "well you were driving to quickly for the situation as you could not see around the bend." A stupid argument of course as stopping at each and every blind bend to evaluate it prior to going around it is not possible. Even if the road is a 60mph road and you are travelling at 30mph, it still might not allow time to stop in time.
Black and white arguments as I say above are the simple solution to nothing more often than not.
I've seen incredibly stupid arguments on this very forum when someone had a crash around a blind bend because they came around the bend to find a tractor pulling out and couldn't stop. So people chime in with "well you were driving to quickly for the situation as you could not see around the bend." A stupid argument of course as stopping at each and every blind bend to evaluate it prior to going around it is not possible. Even if the road is a 60mph road and you are travelling at 30mph, it still might not allow time to stop in time.
Black and white arguments as I say above are the simple solution to nothing more often than not.
But the point is the car with the better tyres will always be better off.
So using the argument that you can adapt for crap tyres most of the time isn't much a justification given the situations where you CANT adapt and the only thing you can rely on is the ability of the tyre to stop you as quickly as possible when you stamp on the brakes.
Precisely.