Skoda Fabia VRS - is the engine really such a disaster?
- Thread starter stockhausen
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Hi
What is the source of this "known" information?
Does it apply to the 1.4 TSI as used in the Fabia vRS or to the Octavia vRS engine?
What is a TSB?
Following advice from Paul M, I have been having a look at the Briskoda forum and there seems to be a load of "chatter" about problems with the 1.4 TSI engine as used in the Fabia vRS but not a whole lot of hard data.
Hi
What is the source of this "known" information?
Does it apply to the 1.4 TSI as used in the Fabia vRS or to the Octavia vRS engine?
What is a TSB?
Following advice from Paul M, I have been having a look at the Briskoda forum and there seems to be a load of "chatter" about problems with the 1.4 TSI engine as used in the Fabia vRS but not a whole lot of hard data.
Tsb in technical service bulletin iirc. Sure someone will be along to answer your other queries.
1.8 and 2.0 TSI had their fair share of epic failures as well. My TSI suffered from bad factory tolerances leading to incorrect oil supply and lubrication, kept gradually losing more and more oil between services, engine eventually eaten its piston rings waiting for Skoda to react. I knew about the problems and kept meticulous logs and diagnostics, so when it finally happened, at ~70k miles I stood up to Skoda UK and after epic and long fight they covered the costs. As they disassembled the engine to remove pistons, the chain tensioner (which was not even on the TSB list of dodgy tensioners to replace) seised on the spot and plastic guide crumbled to bits, so they replaced both in my car, along with completely knackered plastic water pump. 3 year and 5 months old car we are talking about.
Mind you this is different chain and tensioner setup to 1.4, it just gets to show that when the VAG group cut manufacturing costs in 2009/2010, all of the TSI engines suffered from subpar part failures.
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I've read this thread and I don't really have much to add other than it makes me grateful I bought my civic rather than a Golf GT as most people told me I should at the time :S
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Thanks for that post; I would dearly love to hear more of your experience with the engine. So much of what I have read is very vague and I am not at all sure how people can hope to identify that they have an impending problem.
- How often did you (do you) check your oil level?
- Was there any instrumented warning?
- Which version of the engine did you have (CAVE/CTHE)? From the age of your car, I'm guessing the former.
- Did you have the breather pipe modification?
- Did you have the ECU updated by Skoda?
- Is your engine "tuned" or bog standard?
- Do you take your car to "track days"?
Once again, thanks
In my particular trim, the car is equipped with low oil level indicator, when the level drops to just above min on bayonet a message "check oil" is displayed on the maxidot panel next to speedometer, so it's impossible to miss.
Most TSI engines run on long/variable service intervals from factory, so the electronics in the car itself adjust service intervals according to viscosity and state of the oil in sump. In my particular case service intervals requested by the car would always fall anywhere between 17,000 and 22,000 (even at the end where it would literally have no trace of original oil after few thousand miles). The car required no top of oil in the first 20,000 miles (first oil change after about 3,000 from new, just to clear the sump after running in, then first variable service approx 17,500 miles later).
It then gradually started taking oil, first time I saw the "check oil" message was at around 28,000, I even remember where I was at the time, as I stopped right next to Stonehenge to top it up with what was left in the bottle Skoda handed over to me after service (the sump takes something like 4.6 litres, so there is a little left in 5x1 litre bottles they charge for at the end)
From then on I knew exactly what the problem was, I kept checking bayonet every 2,000 miles, later on 1,000 miles, then every 500 miles, at the end, as it drunk so much. From 40,000 miles I also kept insisting on weighting tests (at my own costs) with every service. Each time I was told "Mr. v0n, these cars do take oil, why don't you just accept it".
2010 1.8TSI engine version CDA
No, breather pipe is supposed to prevent damage, doesn't help if the damage is already done. I know it's a fix that Audi provide for their TSI's drinking oil, but in my case Skoda denied the problem for too long, and chose to battle with me. They refused warranty fix despite problem starting during original warranty process and continuing when I purchased Skoda's own extended warranty. They said the problem cannot be fixed under original warranty, because problem was within manufacturer tolerances (which is 1litre per 1000 miles, as written in manual book, now think about it for a second, entire sump of oil gone in under 5000 miles - a norm) and they don't even investigate until oil consumption reaches 0.5 litres per 1000 miles). And they couldn't fix it under extended Skoda warranty, because problem was pre-existing. As if there was a magical time warp with my car driving endlessly between the two.
When they finally agreed there is a problem and few months later to fix it, it was too late for oil pressure fixes. They had to refurb the whole engine. On the day of "surgery" I delivered the vehicle in limp mode with two cylinders no longer holding pressure.
Just standard unrelated update when they replaced gear box for the first time. Oh, yeah, did mention, I am on my second DSG7 gearbox, and the second one is now with second set of clutches.
Standard, factory mapping.
Nopes, I do take it to London to sit in traffic every day. And oddly enough, oil consumption used to go through the roof in traffic, I never had any issues on autobahn for example.
Not at all, fire away, I have logs, receipts, exact milages, etc. I realise my experience with 1.8TSI is not as helpful as experience with 1.4TSI for the thread, but all I can tell you - in my experience Skoda UK will do everything to derail any claims and fixes for . At the end, they had to create this weird hybrid, where 50% was paid by Skoda UK (that's importer, not manufacturer), 20% was paid by customer services who sold the car, 20% was paid by dealer I serviced the car with and 10% was paid by me (that was more of me insisting on new chain and few other parts when the engine was still open, work was for free, parts I paid for).
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v0n, many thanks for these detailed, factual and objective responses based on personal experience, they are greatly appreciated.
I must admit that I was under the impression that these problems were limited to the highly tuned Twincharged 1.4 litre TSI engine - clearly that may not be the case and the problem may relate to the whole TSI series of Volkswagen Group engines.
Sadly it sounds as if the DSG semi-auto gearboxes may not be a whole lot better - I was very impressed with that whole concept. So much for quality German engineering
I must admit that I was under the impression that these problems were limited to the highly tuned Twincharged 1.4 litre TSI engine - clearly that may not be the case and the problem may relate to the whole TSI series of Volkswagen Group engines.
Sadly it sounds as if the DSG semi-auto gearboxes may not be a whole lot better - I was very impressed with that whole concept. So much for quality German engineering
I must admit that I was under the impression that these problems were limited to the highly tuned Twincharged 1.4 litre TSI engine - clearly that may not be the case and the problem may relate to the whole TSI series of Volkswagen Group engines.
Sadly it sounds as if the DSG semi-auto gearboxes may not be a whole lot better - I was very impressed with that whole concept. So much for quality German engineering
It might sound strange, considering my input above, but I wouldn't trade the 1.8TSI/DSG7 combo for anything in sub £40k sector.
True story.
As unreliable as it is at times, as prone to major issues, as it might be in the future, in those 40,000k miles intervals when both engine and gearbox work without issues, the every day comfort of power to smoothness ratio they provide is just unbeatable. There is nothing on the market I could replace it with with the money I'm willing to spend.
While my car was in pieces repaired by Skoda I had nearly three weeks to explore just about every alternative petrol or diesel paired with automatic option, up to £35-37k new and it was a relief to get back behind the wheel of my humble 2010 Skoda. Not a word of lie. You have to jump high and deep into (equally amazing and troublesome) BMW technology at three times the price of my Octavia L&K to actually feel the "upgrade" under the bonnet. That's how good that particular high output VAG TSI four pot/DSG pairing is.
That said, unfortunately, there is an element of price-to-product in this. I never cared if everyone thought it was uncool to own Skoda, I still don't care today. But from "what VAG car you get for money" I could entertain the whole "old German parts as found and put together by Czechoslovakians in a shed 50 miles from Prague" Skoda scenario when the top of the line, every-extra-included L&K trim or fully specced vRS was £16-18,000 new.
Today, when the new models of Octavia seem to be pitched at highly amusing prices of £24,000 and up and fully specced vRS will easily drag you onto wrong side of mid 30 grand finance, I just don't know how they can justify it. Skoda cars are not equal in quality of assembly, finish and do not get the newest technology compared to other VW cars. It's always at least half a generation behind. Seat got newest Golf tech, Skoda didn't. If Skoda is not the "budget" arm, if they are not the "value", the white label version of better packaged, fresher products, then their purpose is lost on the market. And things we would forgive the cheap underdog, we will not forgive equally priced brand. I foresee Skoda tumbling down in customer satisfaction surveys with merciless force and anger in the next few years.
I agree with your comments regarding price. The sales invoice for my mk1 vRS showed that the original owner paid less than £14.5k for it brand new with cruise added. With prices as they are now they are far less appealing new compared to the VW alternatives.
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is this the same with this 1.2 vrs? my brother has just bought an 08 from arnold clarks. dont want it going on him anytime soon!
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There is a 1.2 VRS?
As it happens, I believe that this problem is most marked with the early CAVE 1.4 litre twincharged petrol engine (supercharger & turbocharger). I gather that it is not a problem with the later CTHE engine as used now for about two or three years. It seems that some people "tune" their already highly tuned engines and that this may skew the figures. There is lots of information about these problems on the Briskoda website.
OP, have you thought about the 1.4 TSI ACT cars?
Polo GT, Ibiza FR, Golf GT, Leon.
The smaller cars can be had for less than £10k as can the Leon if you don't mind the SE spec.
oh, and just rated as the top "non performance" engine under 2l. by carwow
140ps though so still ~8sec 0-60
Polo GT, Ibiza FR, Golf GT, Leon.
The smaller cars can be had for less than £10k as can the Leon if you don't mind the SE spec.
oh, and just rated as the top "non performance" engine under 2l. by carwow
140ps though so still ~8sec 0-60