mega storms uk next week

Sunbed said:
Something that hasn't really been mentioned in the media is funding. Funding for flood defence schemes is awarded based on the benefit to cost ratio of the scheme. The higher the ratio, the more likely it is awarded funding. Currently, economic benefits are largely influenced by the number of residential properties protected, not so much commercial property or land (these are factors set by the government on a national level).

So, last I heard about 40 properties were flooded in Somerset. The economic benefits from protecting 40 properties is relatively little, so the costs have to be proportionate to maintain a decent benefit to cost ratio. Dredging is expensive and not particularly favourable for various reasons:
- It transfers the flood risk further downstream.
- It causes a vast amount of waste silt which is very expensive to dispose of properly.
- It destroys aquatic habitat, therefore unfavourable with respect to EU law.
- The silt returns relatively quickly.

In short, a scheme which relies solely on dredging will not be cost beneficial for the taxpayer. As Lord Smith said, a more holistic and lasting solution is needed for the area.
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Whilst only 40 properties were actually flooded (though more have now succumbed to the water) far greater numbers have either been physically cut off.

I'm surprised there is no allowance for commercial given the amount of farming land that is slowly being rendered unusable for this year which is going to lead to payouts to preserve peoples livelihoods.

Cost of dredging depends on the river, figures for the Parrett seem to be around £10K/km which isn't expensive in the scheme of things. As for replacing the dredging with something better for the environment and able to last for the longer term, they've had 20 years to come up with a solution and still haven't done anything.
 
Glaucus said:
Wasn't nice on the motorway this morning. However Taunton area hasn't flooded any more despite the rain.
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The extra pumping seems to be offsetting the additional rainfall we've had - I'd imagine its going to be some weeks assuming it doesn't rain especially hard before it goes down proper though.

Alibaba99 said:
I'm surprised there is no allowance for commercial given the amount of farming land that is slowly being rendered unusable for this year which is going to lead to payouts to preserve peoples livelihoods.
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Seen some conspiracy theories going about, about how it was allowed to flood so as to force a cheap sell off of the land for fracking heh. Kind of falls apart a bit unless they somehow engineered the extreme rainfall we've been having also as even with complete neglect to drainage normal rainfall levels wouldn't have had that outcome.
 
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Alibaba99 said:
Cost of dredging depends on the river, figures for the Parrett seem to be around £10K/km which isn't expensive in the scheme of things. As for replacing the dredging with something better for the environment and able to last for the longer term, they've had 20 years to come up with a solution and still haven't done anything.
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Why bother doing anything? Dredging wouldn't have stopped this level of flooding and how often does this kind of flooding happen anyway? We won't really know until all of the statistics are looked at, but I bet we haven't seen this for many decades.
 
Feeling rather lucky that after living next to an "at risk" river in the UK's 9th wettest city for several years, I've still to have a problem with flooding. Being on the top floor is probably helpful though.
 
New weather forecast
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:p.
 
CaptainRAVE said:
Why bother doing anything? Dredging wouldn't have stopped this level of flooding and how often does this kind of flooding happen anyway? We won't really know until all of the statistics are looked at, but I bet we haven't seen this for many decades.
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While we haven't had anything if this level it certainly could have had less of an impact if dredging and other drainage had been properly maintained. The section of the yeo I live near has been managed for awhile by letting some fields flood when it gets bad rather than do badly needed maintenance downstream - anyone living around here knows its a disaster waiting to happen - was some close calls last time it rained much.

That said some parts that have flooded even the most paranoid probably wouldn't have expected even with the nature of the land.
 
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Plenty of horizontal rain / hail here in Plymouth (Guzz) yesterday. Nice and fresh today. No wind or rain (so far).

Very strange that the South West area has been mostly underwater for 6 weeks and there was a few visits by pointless people saying the pointless things that most politicains say, yet now that the Thames is looking 'a bit more full than usual' there is now masses of things getting done. Wonder how long it would take to fix a rail line into London if it went??
 
Hades said:
Everytime I drive past the Thames in Kingston recently I'm amazed how high the water level is. I'm driving down to Bournemouth early tomorrow morning so I'll go and take a look at the sea down there and see if there are any decent waves :)
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Flood warnings on the Thames today. It is at its highest level for 20 years and water levels are rising. Staines, Egham, Chertsey and Datchet are the problem areas.
 
I'm curious to see how the government's response to the potential of bad flooding nearer the capital compares to their response to the other parts of the country

They should just plug up the leaks with the fat from that EA guys flabby jowels :p
 
Alibaba99 said:
I'm surprised there is no allowance for commercial given the amount of farming land that is slowly being rendered unusable for this year which is going to lead to payouts to preserve peoples livelihoods.
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I didn't say no allowance. It's just that economic benefits from protecting agricultural land are far less than residential land. This isn't neccessarily a reflection of reality, it's the way the treasury has set up the funding rules. The government like their statistics which say they've protected 'x' number of properties from flooding, they think that makes them popular so that's where they target their funding.

Alibaba99 said:
Cost of dredging depends on the river, figures for the Parrett seem to be around £10K/km which isn't expensive in the scheme of things. As for replacing the dredging with something better for the environment and able to last for the longer term, they've had 20 years to come up with a solution and still haven't done anything.
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They have come up with a solution. Lord Smith has said the scheme (although I'm not entirely sure what it involves - must be some dredging included) can attract £400k of capital funding. To make it viable it needs a significant amount of partnership (council/commercial) funding and this hasn't been found yet.

To put that into perspective, £400k is probably enough to get your dredgers to site. I'm no expert on dredging but I would gues your figure of £10k per km is way off. That may be the cost of the actual dredging plant per km but I very much doubt that accounts for things like the disposal of the silt and the environmental mitigation.

I'm very surprised UKIP hasn't used this to its advantge more. The EU law protecting some species - Elvers in this case - is very powerful and can be a reason why big schemes don't go ahead.
 
Sunbed said:
I'm very surprised UKIP hasn't used this to its advantge more. The EU law protecting some species - Elvers in this case - is very powerful and can be a reason why big schemes don't go ahead.
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They have been. Farage was on the radio on Friday telling the government to freeze the foreign aid budget (most of it is spent on our behalf by the EU in Brussels) and spend the savings draining the Somerset levels.
 
uncle_rufus said:
I'm curious to see how the government's response to the potential of bad flooding nearer the capital compares to their response to the other parts of the country
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Staines, Chertsey, Egham and Datchet are in heavily populated areas close to the country's main airport, two of the busiest motorways and the capital city - I wouldn't be surprised to see more of a response. It's affecting a lot more people in a more concentrated area.
 
Cosimo said:
Flood warnings on the Thames today. It is at its highest level for 20 years and water levels are rising. Staines, Egham, Chertsey and Datchet are the problem areas.
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I don't too far from the river in Staines. Its pretty scary how quickly it has been rising.

Trains to Windsor have been cut off due to the flooding in Wraysbury and Datchet.
 
scorza said:
They have been. Farage was on the radio on Friday telling the government to freeze the foreign aid budget (most of it is spent on our behalf by the EU in Brussels) and spend the savings draining the Somerset levels.
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Sorry, yeh I meant the bit specifically relating to EU law and the protection of habitat. My point was a lot of capital schemes, including flood defence schemes are significantly hindered by the burocracy of complying with EU law. It's a pretty good argument for leaving the EU. However, it's also quite easy to argue that the EU laws protecting species/habitat are there for a very good reason.
 
Rroff said:
While we haven't had anything if this level it certainly could have had less of an impact if dredging and other drainage had been properly maintained. The section of the yeo I live near has been managed for awhile by letting some fields flood when it gets bad rather than do badly needed maintenance downstream - anyone living around here knows its a disaster waiting to happen - was some close calls last time it rained much.

That said some parts that have flooded even the most paranoid probably wouldn't have expected even with the nature of the land.
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Here is a hit and run for you...

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-floods-somerset-levels-david-cameron-farmers

A river's capacity is tiny by comparison to the catchment from which it draws its water. You can increase the flow of a river by dredging, but that is likely to cause faster and more dangerous floods downstream when the water hits the nearest urban bridge (something the residents of towns like Taunton and Bridgwater should be worried about). If you cut it off from its floodplain by turning it into a deep trench, you might raise its capacity from, say, 2% of the water moving through the catchment to 4%. You will have solved nothing while creating a host of new problems.
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Cosimo said:
Flood warnings on the Thames today. It is at its highest level for 20 years and water levels are rising. Staines, Egham, Chertsey and Datchet are the problem areas.
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I walked along the river yesterday at Kingston and the water has now overflowed the banks and has flooded the walkways next to it making them impassable and threatening a few bars nearby. It's a minor inconvenience compared to how some people are affected but the level is still rising and normally it is several feet below the walkway.
 
Sunbed said:
Sorry, yeh I meant the bit specifically relating to EU law and the protection of habitat. My point was a lot of capital schemes, including flood defence schemes are significantly hindered by the burocracy of complying with EU law. It's a pretty good argument for leaving the EU. However, it's also quite easy to argue that the EU laws protecting species/habitat are there for a very good reason.
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I tell you what, I shall ask the other half, as that is one of her tasks at the moment. Making sure that we as a country comply with EU law, which by the way, should have been done years ago, but we are only now actually implementing it.

As a direct result of this EU policy, F1 guru Ross Brawn has personally been writing letters to my better half :D
 
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