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NVIDIA Announces Q4 FY 2014 Results: Above Expectations!
- Thread starter Gregster
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Caporegime
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But then there are plenty of 290's available for those prices, pushing £300, and it's faster than a 770. A lack of 280x's at £300 isn't going to push people to Nvidia, people don't want a 280x for gaming full stop at £300. For gaming the 280x at current prices are a huge no no. 290's spank them silly in gaming for the same cost, there is no contest, you can undervolt and limit the fan to a silent 35% and it would still be significantly faster than a 280x.
People are buying 770/780's in higher quantities in the past quarter because the 290x/290 drastically pushed the 770/780 prices down.
So all the guys who want an Nvidia card and didn't want to pay £500+ for them, but would pay £300... have now had the cards move down to that pricing bracket, hence they are now buying.
Every £100 more a card costs the number of buyers drops by order of magnitude.
The fact is the past few months there's been a shortage of availability of AMD GPUs due to mining. That has an effect on Nvidia sales on the gaming side.
A tiny effect in my eyes, like I said don't think it has much at all to do with nvidia's recent well doing.
Drunkenmaster has explained it well.
That's the point though, even at inflated prices the 280x is struggling for stock. AMD now have a massive gap in their pricing line up at retail which Nvidia don't. At a point where bigger sales are made than the high end.
Soldato
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Caporegime
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Very weak. You crack me up DM
Without fail
So without anything to explain why they aren't you post for no reason at all, well done.
Try reading up how much they get from Intel currently per quarter and when that payment stops, and how much they get from PS3 sales which will start to drop off very very soon, then come back and say 180mil profit is "healthy".
Ask yourself this, if Nvidia weren't fearing long term profit drop, why are they pumping huge amounts of R&D money into Tegra when it's failing miserably?
R&D is up 200mil for the previous 12 months vs the 12 months before that, while Tegra sales are down what 350mil.
Total profits in the previous 12 months are now 430mil, down from 560mil the 12 months before that. $233mil a year of this is directly from Intel, it is stopping in around 2 year. Finding their PS3 income is difficult but it's likely around the $100-150mil a year mark.
AS their profits are reducing year on year, and a HUGE chunk of that is set to disappear entirely in the next couple of years........ no, those profits are crazy strong for their strongest quarter(people also seem to be forgetting that Q4 is always the strongest quarter, people don't buy in summer, they buy in the back to school quarter).
Nvidia are spending ever more in R&D< the vast majority of the increase in their R&D is in tegra's, where they've burned most of their partners and seeing Tegra 4 see almost no uptake. More than half their yearly profits are directly down to the Intel lawsuit/chipset deal that is not to be renewed. A significant portion of the rest of the profits as PS3 sales drop over the next 12-18 months will disappear, while Nvidia's non Intel/PS3 profits drop year on year by a fairly large amount.
No, those numbers are really healthy, just because you want them to be.
Should probably ignore that shareholder equity is down 400million, and that they had no long term debt last year, and 1.3billion in long term debt in their books this year, I won't claim to(without looking up and maybe even not then) knowing where this 1.3billion in long term debt they've listed has appeared from. But it's rarely a good thing when a company goes from listing zero long term debt one year, to 1.3billion of debt the next year....
We probably shouldn't mention that Nvidia have lost a fairly significant portion of the professional market in the past 12 months, some high profile contracts like professional cards in Apple workstations with rumours that their professional market share numbers are dipping further with both AMD/Intel finally taking some fairly large numbers off Nvidia.
If we talk about PS3 numbers, which really are guesswork, but educated guesses. Only a year ago when AMD were announced in all new consoles Jensen said they don't like it because margins are low, they got 500mil in total from 50mil ps3 sales, so $10 a console. Factor in that one of the biggest problems with Sony wanting to not go Nvidia is that they had a bad deal where they paid the same royalty fee per core regardless of the process/time it was made. So they were paying the same amount when ps3 launched, as say, yesterday.
Ps3 sold around 4-5million consoles in the past 3 months, meaning 40-50mil sales, which consequently is likely around 40-50mil in profit.
Now again, 430mil profit for the year, 233mil comes from Intel in a not to be renewed deal, even 30mil a quarter profit from PS3 is 120mil a year. So of that 430, roughly speak 350mil(conservatively) comes from money that won't be there within 2 years. PS3 sales have already dropped off to way below PS4 sales, and roughly half of the 130-140k the ps3 averaged last year(it was 77k last week).
Taking out the Intel/PS3 profit(350mil) and Nvidia have moved from 210mil a year ago, to 80mil this year. While their R&D on Tegra has increased, while Tegra sales halved and they were already making a loss on the Tegra project.
No, this all screams REALLY healthy outlook for the future.
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Caporegime
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Or just get a 290, then you're buying a £300 gpu for.... £300. A 290 reference with fan limited to 35%(VERY quiet) will spank a 280x/770, spank silly. If you wear headphones the fan at 50% won't be hearable and you'll get beyond stock performance in most games at that speed, simply beating the 770/280 by a bigger margin.
It's worth keeping in mind that my 290's both undervolt significantly, depending on clocks. Both mine can do 940 (happens to be a good mining clock
) at -100mv from stock which reduces power/temps/noise loads, more so in gaming, they can both do around -70mv at 1Ghz and about -30mv at 1.1Ghz, but the sheer speed and volts going above 1.1v at that point again means that can get fairly noisy, though with two cards in xfire.An undervolted single card will get fairly decent clocks, great performance and smash 770/280's to pieces for £300.
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I don't want to spend £300 on a GPU, i'm not into multi screen gaming and all that.
I just want a card thats better than what i have and has more than 2GB of usable vRam.
The 280X was exactly that card for a little over £200, they are now getting to be more expensive than the GTX 770 which also only has 2GB, i know the argument is "2GB is enough" its not, i got my 2GB card to hit the 2GB limit and start off loading vRam to Ram in BF4 and still had playable Frame Rates, if i can get BF4 to do that on a Tahiti LE i sure as hell could get it to do it on a 2GB GTX 770.
So what are my options. a £150~ 270X thats a down grade or a £200~ GTX 760 thats a side grade at best.
I'm stuck with an old GPU thats more powerful than whats available today at the same price i paid for it.
I just want a card thats better than what i have and has more than 2GB of usable vRam.
The 280X was exactly that card for a little over £200, they are now getting to be more expensive than the GTX 770 which also only has 2GB, i know the argument is "2GB is enough" its not, i got my 2GB card to hit the 2GB limit and start off loading vRam to Ram in BF4 and still had playable Frame Rates, if i can get BF4 to do that on a Tahiti LE i sure as hell could get it to do it on a 2GB GTX 770.
So what are my options. a £150~ 270X thats a down grade or a £200~ GTX 760 thats a side grade at best.
I'm stuck with an old GPU thats more powerful than whats available today at the same price i paid for it.
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Caporegime
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They are struggling, however I didn't say it would happen overnight, or in the short term, neither has anyone else I've seen say anything remotely similar.
I'm don't think I would have said they WILL be gone either, just that they will have some huge problems in the long term surviving as is. Tegra is a significant measure that most of the industry believe is an attempt for some diversity as Nvidia can't rely long term on graphics cards alone. The Tegra project is struggling very badly, making a loss and is going backwards at a very fast rate at the moment. Their profits are dropping for multiple reasons, not least those that most highlighted. Over TIME as Intel/AMD go all APU, Nvidia is going to have huge problems with volume and low end. Everyone talking about this as a huge problem for NVidia is(and was) talking about the long term.
Saying Nvidia will struggle when APU's are good enough for the majority of users(this is JUST happening) meant just that. It didn't mean when AMD launch their first APU we all think Nvidia will shut down the very next quarter.
If 5 years ago you say Nvidia will struggle because half their gpu market is evaporating, well, there is huge evidence of that, not least Nvidia themselves this year saying low end is dead to them, which you would know is by a massive margin their biggest volume area. They are losing ground in other areas for gpu's as well, console sales which were effectively pure profit with zero ongoing costs(always good). That doesn't mean Nvidia can't adapt and change how they do business, Tegra is precisely that. 5 years ago I can't judge if they'd become a profitable ARM competitor, which is why I would say they will struggle in discrete gpu's, which they are beginning to around when everyone thought they would.
Tegra is doing very badly at the moment, will K1 turn that around, we'll see. Nvidia aren't the same company they were 5 years ago. If they adapt and gain momentum in other markets and aren't entirely reliant on gpu's, or can find a way to replace the revenue from the low and eventually most of the midrange, fine. Doesn't change what the majority of people predicted for Nvidia, trouble with discrete gpu's long term against two guys making APU's.
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One thing i will say in all this. Nvidia have to rely on ARM for their SoC (Tegra)
Or go cap in hand to AMD for 64Bit extensions and Intel for 32Bit extensions. Guess what they will say to Nvidia, Hell if they pull the plug on ARM using their IP Nvidia can forget about a future in SoC.
AMD and Intel hold all the cards in SoC.
Or go cap in hand to AMD for 64Bit extensions and Intel for 32Bit extensions. Guess what they will say to Nvidia, Hell if they pull the plug on ARM using their IP Nvidia can forget about a future in SoC.
AMD and Intel hold all the cards in SoC.
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Fair enough, I will take your word on it!
Soldato
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Can't rely on one market not the same company they used to be, a profit isn't a profit loss isn't a loss etc etc
Come back in another 5 years chap and we will have the same DM prophecy.
Meanwhile in the real world, market shares paint a real picture.
Come back in another 5 years chap and we will have the same DM prophecy.
Meanwhile in the real world, market shares paint a real picture.
Actually they don't, 16% of a market to 18% of that market which is down 40% since that share was 16% is still a significant drop in sales.
Soldato
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Nvidia got a lot of dollar from me, keep making quality products, and I'll keep buying em lol.
I dont see Nvidia going anywere.
As pointed out though the pc market is declining there share of GPU sales is still increasing as if there profit from them.
Granted they have lost a lot of the lower end of the GPU market, but that was there choice. It was also there choice not to do the consoles as the profit margins sucked for them.
They are also trying to move into other sectors, some successfully some not so. There isnt a company alive that has always got it right 100% of the time.
Are Nvidia perfect no, are ati perfect no. Do they both rip the consumer off at times, yes. Thats business.
As pointed out though the pc market is declining there share of GPU sales is still increasing as if there profit from them.
Granted they have lost a lot of the lower end of the GPU market, but that was there choice. It was also there choice not to do the consoles as the profit margins sucked for them.
They are also trying to move into other sectors, some successfully some not so. There isnt a company alive that has always got it right 100% of the time.
Are Nvidia perfect no, are ati perfect no. Do they both rip the consumer off at times, yes. Thats business.
All i said was Nvidia need to lower prices, it then expended into this, Greg
AMD's dependants on Desktop CPU's is also minimal, its why they are ignoring that sector, they are concentrating on commercial compute, embedded and IP, which is where most of their revenue comes from, and its where their market share is growing.
By comparison, Nvidia depend on us buying their GPU's in high volumes at high prices
If Nvidia didn't have the higher volume and margins they couldn't sustain themselves, its a very precarious potion to be in. when you consider their costumer base is in decline, for Nvidia to keep up revenue levels they have to keep moving prices up, as volume declines, for AMD it makes little difference as it makes up so little of their revenue with their bread winning sector growing.
It is funny how the two who picked me up are the two I was thinking of with what I wrote in the OP.
It doesn't matter whatever way you butter it up, nVidia are making profit in a volatile market. Good or bad, I don't care and was merely posting news and adding my own brand of humour to the OP