Cat Connundrum
- Thread starter FoxEye
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Duh, what do you think your (chosen) experts just said?
Paraphrasing -
"outdoor cats have riskier lives, indoor cats get depressed and overeat"
Like I said, you are reading mostly American sources, Americans keep their cats indoors, Europeans tend not to. It's a culture thing and Americans are unfortunately retarded.
There is no expert that suggests keeping cats indoors, they are all neutral as it all depends on the local conditions and the cat's temperament. Rag dolls will stay in, moggys will mostly all want to go out.
If you think a cat is going to be "happy" with a few cat toys then do as you please, in my experience all cats forcibly kept indoors will try to escape if you let them. Says it all IMO.
My wife used to foster lots of cats for the CPL, they were all allowed to roam, they were all visibly happy and they all lived for 9-15 years.
Personally I'd go with her lifetime of practical experience with animals over some American retard living in Detroit.
For once there is something in your post I can agree with - breed is a factor. Most cat sites don't recommend letting Ragdolls outside, as you said. And as all the experts say, you have to keep your indoor cat mentally stimulated, with plenty of new things to investigate.
This isn't a binary choice between 'happy outdoor cat' and 'ignored, depressed indoor cat'.
This isn't a binary choice between 'happy outdoor cat' and 'ignored, depressed indoor cat'.
Might be an idea to get your bonce checked for any numerical symbols...
Sadly the common sense you are talking is falling on fury deaf ears.
Growing up at home we had anywhere between 2 and 6 cats.... They are not intended to be incarcerated indoors. They enjoy a balance of indoors and outdoors. A friend of mine had a couple of maine coons that they kept indoors... They were such sad pathetic creatures; constantly staring out of the window and scratching the door trying to get out and they had unbalanced and depressed personalities.
Exactly, this is cruel. If you have a cat that is trying to get out desperately then it's cruel keeping them in.
That's all very well, but who do you expect me to believe? Credible experts on the 'net, on TV, in print... or you?
Same goes for all you naysayers.
To paraphrase again from the RSPCA... 'There is no evidence that being an indoor cat is better or worse than being an outdoor cat.'
So excuse me for having 'deaf ears'. I know plenty of people who have happy indoor cats, so the fact that you have seen some unhappy indoor cats does nothing to change my mind.
There are plenty of starving, flea and FIV-ridden outdoor cats too. As well as dead ones who have been hit by cars, had things thrown at them by angry neighbours, and gotten serious injuries from fighting.
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My cat winds me up something chronic - generally try to keep it outside, feed it outside etc, but it does get in and when it does I often encourage the dog to go over and wind it up.
Newfoundland > Cat
Also the cat always dumps in my bath.
Newfoundland > Cat
Also the cat always dumps in my bath.
You've responded to something I didn't say, I also find it a bit awkward that you're telling people how to look after cats despite never having had one.
I'm not tho, am I? I'm not the one telling anybody to do anything.
You and your ilk keep banging on about it being cruel to keep animals inside, and how people who do are committing acts of animal cruelty. In other words, they should let them out.
So if anyone's telling people what to do, it's you, isn't it? I simply pointed out that experts do not agree with your entrenched viewpoint.
But carry on attacking me rather than the argument, I'm sure that'll prove to everyone how wrong I am.
Myself and my ilk? What are you talking about? I've simply said that it's cruel to keep a cat in against its will, if you have a cat and it's scrambling to go outside and you never let it out, then that's cruel.
You seem to have deluded yourself in to thinking I've said "All cats should go out always and if they don't go outside at all then the owner is cruel".
Some cats don't like going outside, but then you're not keeping them in against their will are you? There are plenty of indoor only cats because they choose to not want to go out, which is fine.
But keeping a cat that wants to go out, inside is akin to forcing your cat that doesn't want to go out, to spend all day outside, and they're both cruel.
When did I attack you? I'm criticising what you're saying, I'm not attacking you, stop being so dramatic.
So, in that case, what part of what I'm saying are you criticising?
All I said was that under the right conditions it's fine for a cat to be an indoors cat. I quoted the RSPCA article (and others) which had a lot to say about indoor cats, including:
1. That they should not have been outdoor cats before becoming indoor cats (because they'd want to go out)
2. That they needed lots of new things to play with and investigate. And of course time spent playing and bonding with their pet human.
So... are you disagreeing with that? Because really I'm not saying that out of any insight I've gained, I'm just repeating what the experts are saying.
All I said was that under the right conditions it's fine for a cat to be an indoors cat. I quoted the RSPCA article (and others) which had a lot to say about indoor cats, including:
1. That they should not have been outdoor cats before becoming indoor cats (because they'd want to go out)
2. That they needed lots of new things to play with and investigate. And of course time spent playing and bonding with their pet human.
So... are you disagreeing with that? Because really I'm not saying that out of any insight I've gained, I'm just repeating what the experts are saying.
I told you that you were responding to something I didn't say, which you did.
Then you had a moan about me and my "ilk" demonstrating yet again that you were responding to something I hadn't said.
I was responding to Lima's post (the one that I quoted...) about the 2 Maine coons that were being kept indoors despite showing that they were desperate to go outside to play.
Then you had a moan about me and my "ilk" demonstrating yet again that you were responding to something I hadn't said.
I was responding to Lima's post (the one that I quoted...) about the 2 Maine coons that were being kept indoors despite showing that they were desperate to go outside to play.
OK. But if you look at Lima's post, he was asserting that keeping any cat indoors all the time was cruel. He used an example of his friend's Maine Coons, but his argument was that all cats should be allowed to go outdoors.
You then quoted his entire post, and agreed "exactly".
So that's why I responded the way I did.
Nope, his point was they should be allowed out if they so wish. This is the context you are missing, there is nothing wrong with an indoor cat if that's what they choose to do, but to force a cat to be an indoor cat when it desperately wants to go outside is cruel.
Would a cat that has been kept indoors its whole life (and knows nothing else) desperately want to go outside? Let's assume here a reasonable sized house rather than a cat kept in a single room/small flat.
A cat kept indoors might look out of the window the same way we look at the television. It's stimulating and/or entertaining. Is a cat looking out of the window for long periods a sign of desperately wanting to get out?
I guess if your cat is sitting by the door and meowing, scratching at the doors, windows, etc... that's probably a good indication of wanting to be let out.
But how often does that happen unless the cat was an outdoors cat at some point before?
Hence my point about you responding to something I didn't say. The guy was talking about cats scratching to go out, sitting by the door.
This is the context we're talking in, it just so happens to be that the vast majority of cats will more than likely want to go out of their own volition.
This is the context we're talking in, it just so happens to be that the vast majority of cats will more than likely want to go out of their own volition.
I don't know any normal moggy that from birth chooses to stay indoors, they are instinctively predatory animals, therefore for a cat to know nothing else suggests it has been forcibly confined by it's owner.
I would not wish to deal with such a cat owner.
I think we can safely say *every* cat would go outside at some point if they could. Out of curiosity if nothing else. Even if there is abundant food and everything else inside, the cat will go out at some point, to explore.
That's not the question tho. The question is, can a cat that doesn't ever go outside be happy and healthy.
Experts can not answer this question definitively. However there are plenty of indoor cats (probably millions). You'd think that if this was significantly detrimental to their well-being that vets and other professionals would have noticed.
Many cat homes will allow volunteers in to pet the cats, I'm a "cat cuddler" at Bath cats and dogs home, which basically just means you can go in and stroke/play with any of the cats they have in the rescue home. I have my own cat but it's nice to go and see them every now and again
wow - thats cool - i never knew that