So by that logic, you have to leave 2 car spaces of a gap when overtaking (2 cyclists abreast) therefore you have no road to use? Most roads are single carriageway both ways so that leaves.......0 lanes to overtake.
Two cyclists just gave me some verbal
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So by that logic, you have to leave 2 car spaces of a gap when overtaking (2 cyclists abreast) therefore you have no road to use? Most roads are single carriageway both ways so that leaves.......0 lanes to overtake.
That's not what's being said and you know it. You don't add the spaces for each cyclist. You add the space on the cyclist on the outside. It's not cumulative.
Exactly
Something else.
What the Highway Code states and what drivers actually do are different things.
In all my years cycling no driver has ever left the space as defined in the hwc.
Soldato
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Sure, because that is safe
So the side of the road is not safe, the middle of the lane is not safe, you aren't allowed on the pavement. I don't know where else we can put cyclists.
If you disregard the opinion from cyclists that they need the berth of a jumbo jet to be safely passed, yes it's safe. Those cyclists will need to do some serious stretching to slap the side of that car.
And why are cyclists slapping passing cars anyway, if a car is so close that it's a danger to you, surely you want to maintain as much control as possible, so how does taking 1 hand of your bars and slapping a car help the situation of your safety, especially after the fact the driver will get out and slap you too.
Sure, because that is safe
If you disregard the opinion from cyclists that they need the berth of a jumbo jet to be safely passed, yes it's safe. Those cyclists will need to do some serious stretching to slap the side of that car.
And why are cyclists slapping passing cars anyway, if a car is so close that it's a danger to you, surely you want to maintain as much control as possible, so how does taking 1 hand of your bars and slapping a car help the situation of your safety, especially after the fact the driver will get out and slap you too.
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Or we could correct that picture to actually make real-world sense.
Guess which one's safer?
Now that the car isn't unnecessarily overtaking somewhere on the other side of the country, it's clear that with single file cyclists there is room for a last-minute evasion should a car coming the other way emerge from a blind dip etc, whereas with abreast cyclists the evasion room is the cyclist. I'm sure most drivers if left with a choice between a head-on collision with a car or sideswiping a bicycle will instinctively choose the latter, in the same way they would choose to have a head-on collision with a car instead of a lorry.
The other obvious point is that on many roads, the lanes will be wide enough for the car to pass the single file cyclists without crossing into the other lane, which doesn't hold true for abreast cyclists.
Guess which one's safer?
Now that the car isn't unnecessarily overtaking somewhere on the other side of the country, it's clear that with single file cyclists there is room for a last-minute evasion should a car coming the other way emerge from a blind dip etc, whereas with abreast cyclists the evasion room is the cyclist. I'm sure most drivers if left with a choice between a head-on collision with a car or sideswiping a bicycle will instinctively choose the latter, in the same way they would choose to have a head-on collision with a car instead of a lorry.
The other obvious point is that on many roads, the lanes will be wide enough for the car to pass the single file cyclists without crossing into the other lane, which doesn't hold true for abreast cyclists.
Shouldn't be overtaking where there are blind dips - will be signposted or a dip in the road will at least be visible.
Not many roads are wide enough to pass by in the same lane without being unnecessarily close to the cyclist.
Try harder.
Giving the same amount of space to a cyclist as you would do a car doesn't mean that you have to be on the other side of the road. If you give a car 4-5 feet of clear space you give the cyclist the same, why would a cyclist need 10+ ft of space?
This. As a cyclist it's often best to position yourself to discourage overtaking until you feel it's safe. I'll generally ride about a metre away from the curb and considerer all drivers to be idiots. Where street furniture constricts the lane I'll move further out to actively block overtaking for the simple reason that reasonable people will wait behind until the obstacle is passed and if a physco tries to run me down I've got somewhere to go.
Soldato
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Cool attitude, you sounds like you've got your head screwed on.
Lol
I've yet to see you come up with a valid argument for why it's safer for cyclists to ride two abreast vs single fileI especially enjoyed the part where you describe blind dips as 'will at least be visible' but your utter faith in the road signage also provided amusement if slightly concerning that you're presumably one of those people who drive at the posted speed at all times regardless of weather/road conditions, since because the sign says so it must be safe.
Really? What counts as 'many'? There are certainly too many roads that are wide enough to pass in the same lane for me to be bothered to list them.
Cyclists are as bad as car drivers and car drivers are as bad as cyclists, as usual you get one bad one that ruins it for the rest of us.
I firmly sit in both camps and will wave people through if I can see its clear etc, but that doesn't stop numpty drivers passing with literally inches to spare, or old people thinking they have a god given right to pass me when there is no space.
Cyclists are here to stay, with the success we're gaining in the sport, and the increasing cost of travelling anywhere more people will be commuting or just riding for fun, so you best get used to it and learn how to work with cyclists not against them.
I firmly sit in both camps and will wave people through if I can see its clear etc, but that doesn't stop numpty drivers passing with literally inches to spare, or old people thinking they have a god given right to pass me when there is no space.
Cyclists are here to stay, with the success we're gaining in the sport, and the increasing cost of travelling anywhere more people will be commuting or just riding for fun, so you best get used to it and learn how to work with cyclists not against them.
Lol
It's safer because people will generally take more consideration when overtaking. A normal road user doesn't want to hit someone so if they have to move into the opposite lane they'll wait until it's clear and there's plenty of room as they consider that to be reasonably dangerous. Riding in single file there may be enough room to physically pass when there's oncoming traffic so cars will pass much closer as there's less risk to them.
This thread is hilarious, so much them and us.
The wider arc you need to more time you need. If I can 'nip around' great, makes it easy for everyone and causes no one any problems or delays; I always give plenty of space to bikes.
If I am in a 60 however zone and I need to get around a bike doing 10mph, then the opportunity for said lycra wearers to become an obstruction is greater than if they were riding single file. To have 2 bikes side by side in such a situation is bad road craft, so these arguments need to be predicated on circumstance, not drawings and definitions in the highway code as without circumstance they add sod all to the debate in most cases.
I ride and I drive and I find bad road craft in both forms and hell, am probably guilty of it myself now and again. These threads ALWAYS dig and dig and dig and dig until the core point is lost and people then try to score points with drawings, wiki extracts and other such 'content'. I have no idea how the OP was driving or how the bikes were riding. I have often come across bikes down my lane side by side, once stopped drinking water in the MIDDLE of the road as a group because, well, it's a country lane, no one will come down here over this blind hill at 40mph....even though it's 60mph lane. Often they don't hear me, but I don't bib, well unless they are 'choosing' not to notice me, but wait for them to be aware and in most cases they move into single file. When then don't, when the become an obstruction and slow down the traffic for no good reason than belligerence then need a metaphorical slap, even if it's a horn in my opinion and if they get angry at that, **** em, but I wouldn't need a thread to debate the merits.
The wider arc you need to more time you need. If I can 'nip around' great, makes it easy for everyone and causes no one any problems or delays; I always give plenty of space to bikes.
If I am in a 60 however zone and I need to get around a bike doing 10mph, then the opportunity for said lycra wearers to become an obstruction is greater than if they were riding single file. To have 2 bikes side by side in such a situation is bad road craft, so these arguments need to be predicated on circumstance, not drawings and definitions in the highway code as without circumstance they add sod all to the debate in most cases.
I ride and I drive and I find bad road craft in both forms and hell, am probably guilty of it myself now and again. These threads ALWAYS dig and dig and dig and dig until the core point is lost and people then try to score points with drawings, wiki extracts and other such 'content'. I have no idea how the OP was driving or how the bikes were riding. I have often come across bikes down my lane side by side, once stopped drinking water in the MIDDLE of the road as a group because, well, it's a country lane, no one will come down here over this blind hill at 40mph....even though it's 60mph lane. Often they don't hear me, but I don't bib, well unless they are 'choosing' not to notice me, but wait for them to be aware and in most cases they move into single file. When then don't, when the become an obstruction and slow down the traffic for no good reason than belligerence then need a metaphorical slap, even if it's a horn in my opinion and if they get angry at that, **** em, but I wouldn't need a thread to debate the merits.