Electronic cigarettes pros and cons.
- Thread starter Boomstick777
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If you buy high concentrate nicotine base, you can mix it with propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin (and flavouring of course!) to make lots of tasty eliquid to vape.
Soldato
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Here's what I'm trying to get across to you.
Drink a tub of 74mg nicotine base = die
Vape nicotine at 12mg = don't die
The toxicity of nicotine is irrelevant really. The dosage you receive from cigarettes and vaping isn't anywhere near dangerous. That's all that matters.
Almost anything becomes toxic at certain levels anyway. That includes caffeine, alcohol...etc.
Almost anything becomes toxic at certain levels anyway. That includes caffeine, alcohol...etc.
And so what, that is irrelevant, nicotine is far more toxic than caffeine or alcohol, it has a similar toxicity to cyanide. That is all I'm trying to get across to you.
Soldato
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It's not irrelevant at all because you don't drink it!
Caffeine will kill you if you ate 20 pots of instant coffee but it's not important because that's not what you do with it.
The point is it is much easier to reach lethal levels of nicotine than caffeine, and as far as substances goes nicotine is more similar in toxicity cyanide so it is an irrelevant comparison to make. You would have to drink hundreds and hundreds of cups of coffee to reach the LD50 levels, long before then you will have died from water poisoning due to osmosis (which can be reached with 4-6 liters). Vaping sufficient nicotine to kill you is much easier. More to the point, long term use of nicotine is ore likely to be detrimental to your health than long term caffeine consumption.
Why so much though? I smoked on/off from 18 to 30 and normally marl borough reds. They are among the harsher cigs, and even they are only 11mg nicotine IIRC. 74MG in a single hit/fake fag is just...silly. And quite worrying tbh. That really is some addiction to nicotine.
Soldato
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Care to back that up?
Or that?
Because a cursory googling only found me this:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8614291
And everything else I've ever read tells us that nicotine, inhaled in the amounts that vapers experience, is harmless. It's a vasoconstrictor, and that's about it.
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Soldato
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Soldato
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The nicotine base is diluted so is weaker.
Anyway, you take in less nicotene whilst vaping which is why you can buy 18mg and 24 mg mixed juices.
I believe that 18mg of nicotine juice is equivalent to the amount you take in per toke with a ciggy.
Here is my stick -
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Soldato
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Im my opinion, it is far nicer to vape than smoke. I don't really vape during the day either, I just like a few tokes in the evening and when I am drinking. Have a nice banana and nut loaf juice at the moment.
Associate
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was there not a new study that says it between 500 and 1000mg to kill a human?
I have already provided 2 links to peer reviewed medical research that indicates a strong link between cancer and nicotine. Caffeine on the contrary has some supporting evidence that it actually reduced cancer risk.
This link summarizes the findings AND provides the peer reviewed literature to support the claims:
http://www.oncologynutrition.org/erfc/hot-topics/caffeine-and-cancer/
Far less, somewhere around 30mg is sufficient.
Soldato
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The two links you put up don't actually state that nicotine causes cancer, but can allow a cancer to spread?
And that last one looks like it's about caffeine?
Soldato
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Nicotine isn't a carcinogen either you tool, it's the tar, carbon monoxide and 400 plus other chemicals in fags that give you cancer, the nicotine is merely the addictive agent.
But I see you avoided my question so I'll ask again. Why, if nicotine is as toxic and cancer-inducing as you claimed, is it licensed and prescribed by nearly every major Western healthcare system on Earth?
Now, to rebut your 'facts' one by one.
"Nicotine is at least 1000-2000x more toxic than caffine"
Wrong, the median lethal dosage of caffeine for a human is around 4-5 grammes, the lethal does of nicotine is around 40-60 milligrams. So taking both in their purest form (which no one would do) the difference is x100 at most, a whole order of magnitude lower than you stated.
Furthermore when you look at how both are used in reality the difference becomes even lower. A smoker absorbs around 1.2mg of nicotine in each cigarette, someone drinking a 100 ml cup of coffee will consume 40mg of caffeine. So whilst it would take around 42 cigarettes smoked in one go to create the possibility of death, it would 'only' take someone downing 125 cups of coffee in the same time frame to be at the same risk of mortality.
So in real terms, and putting in the context of how each is used, at best caffeine products are only 3 times less toxic than nicotine. I haven't even mentioned e-cigs yet which aren't as efficient as cigarettes at delivering nicotine or conversely energy drinks which deliver much higher levels of caffeine.
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"is far less addictive (although shows limited addictive side effects)"
If we define an addiction as something you do several times every day and feel negative side-affects with withdrawal then 80% of the Western world are addicted to caffeine (most of whom will never realise they are until they try and go 'cold turkey' and start getting headaches and nausea.)
So whilst pound for pound nicotine is more addictive, caffeine is far more addicted to and , like the last point above, more addictive as a consumable unit in the context of how it is taken.
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"and is not carcinogenic"
Like nicotine then. Whilst you can cite 'studies that link it to cancer' there is no known or accepted scientific notion that nicotine causes cancer and implying it is (as you have) is a downright lie. In terms of finding studies that link anything with cancer, this is pretty easy and you only have to read the Daily Mail headlines to see how many things get 'linked' with it.
Until you can prove and convince the rest of the medical and scientific world that nicotine is a carcinogen, I'd suggest you are making yourself look foolish at worst, and dishonest at best by keep posting that it is one.
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