DirectX and OpenGL will start offering low-level access in order to reduce draw overhead

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

See,what a little competition ends up doing:

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/direc...el-access-to-reduce-draw-overhead/#more-62436

Thanks AMD for getting the ball rolling and making MS get off their backsides regarding DX.

“In this session we will discuss future improvements in Direct3D that will allow developers an unprecedented level of hardware control and reduced CPU rendering overhead across a broad ecosystem of hardware.”

“For nearly 20 years, DirectX has been the platform used by game developers to create the fastest, most visually impressive games on the planet.

However, you asked us to do more. You asked us to bring you even closer to the metal and to do so on an unparalleled assortment of hardware. You also asked us for better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone and console.”

“Driver overhead has been a frustrating reality for game developers for the entire life of the PC game industry. On desktop systems, driver overhead can decrease frame rate, while on mobile devices driver overhead is more insidious–robbing both battery life and frame rate. In this unprecedented sponsored session, Graham Sellers (AMD), Tim Foley (Intel), Cass Everitt (NVIDIA) and John McDonald (NVIDIA) will present high-level concepts available in today’s OpenGL implementations that radically reduce driver overhead–by up to 10x or more. The techniques presented will apply to all major vendors and are suitable for use across multiple platforms. Additionally, they will demonstrate practical demos of the techniques in action in an extensible, open source comparison framework.”

 

[Silent_Scone]

Something was always going to happen. In their defence, there are a few game changing features already in DX 11.2 that will be implemented eventually, but it's about time someone kicked MS into action most definitely.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Its also nice to see that AMD,Nvidia and Intel seem to all be interested in improving OpenGL performance to the point,representatives are having a session about it.

 

[triss]

It is still unknown when the first DirectX and OpenGL games will take advantage of these new techniques. It will be also interesting to see whether Microsoft will pull another DX10 on PC gamers and make DX12 (or the version that will offer low-level access) exclusive to Windows 8.

MS being MS i could see them doing this with win 9
But its great to see them moving on it and hopefully it will be out soon but i aint holding my breath

 

[ubersonic]

Still, we are really looking forward to see whether the new versions of DirectX and OpenGL will be able to compete with Mantle.

Well we know the OpenGL one will because developers have said so as it already exists it just isn't utilised lol it's only Direct3D that's being majorly improved.

 

[Rusty0611]

Mantle isn't going to take off IMO as nVidia just won't adopt it for obvious reasons. But, if the outcome is that we get lower level access in DX then this is only a good thing.

Personally I don't think Mantle is the answer anyway as having an API developed and ultimately controlled by a GPU manufacturer does not sit comfortably. Optional features which can be switched on/off are a different kettle of fish... and the argument that you can run in DX even when Mantle is available is a fallacy because if Mantle is supposed to become the new standard, why should I have to run in DX? (this is on the abstract assumption that nVidia adopted Mantle)

I've always been amazed by the level of detail incorporated into some of the late PS3 games (allbeit at 720p only). Now it's obviously a lot easier to do that on fixed hardware but I think that gains are there to be had on DX. Mantle will be something there for AMD users at least to use and experiment with. But we've seen the gains for a high end overclocked CPU set up, with a single high end GPU are not that impressive (IMO). Any gain is better than nothing but I haven't been that impressed with the gains in that particular scenario. One place I have been impressed is low end CPU and / or multi GPU set up's.

I'll be interested to see how a lower level DX compares against Mantle.

 

[Silent_Scone]

That's exactly why something like the Khronos Group would benefit everyone with a fresh view point. You need an equal opportunity cookie jar.

Mantle as an industry standard died from day one by only feeding it's GCN customers and not leaving the door open. You can argue that's not true, but you'd be a fool. Enjoy Mantle by all means but don't expect industry domination.

That's not to say DX is any better, but in terms of unity it's the lesser of two evils almost, because it's already got it's foot firmly in the door thanks to Monopolysoft.

 

[Dicehunter]

Would be great if this came to pass

 

[ndaar]

Good news. We all hoped that mantle would give MS a kick in the rear and it seems to be doing that.

 

[Boomstick777]

Competition is great, this is exactly what we said would happen. Hopefully get even more performance from my Ti's on the next revision of DirectX or OpenGL. Thanks to AMD for forcing MS's hand..

 

[mmj_uk]

Yes this is good news, well done AMD for getting the ball rolling.

Now please let Mantle die, a one vendor API is no good for the industry and anyone believing NVidia would adopt it is nuts.

 

[Baboonanza]

Meh. Personally I'd prefer a new API built from the ground up over yet more extensions to the already bloated legacy APIs (OpenGL is worse for this than DX). That massive complexity is one of the things that makes the drivers slow and APIs difficult to learn and use.

I agree that such an API can't be controlled by a single vendor though. Also I have little faith that the Khronos group can actually achieve anything useful after the OpenGL 3 fiasco and Microsoft is always all talk and no trousers when it comes to PC gaming so we may be stuck with Mantle for a while.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Yes this is good news, well done AMD for getting the ball rolling.

Now please let Mantle die, a one vendor API is no good for the industry and anyone believing NVidia would adopt it is nuts.

Lets hope NVAPI also goes away too,and that silly business with closed libraries,in the latest Batman game. Both companies should move to more open standards.

It also means Intel IGPs have a fairer chance too,although they are starting doing some interesting Intel only tricks to improve performance in GRID2 and Rome too(InstantAccess).

I suspect that we will never see any totally fair fight,as AMD,Nvidia and Intel do want to each get one up on their competition!!

 

[Rusty0611]

Meh. Personally I'd prefer a new API built from the ground up over yet more extensions to the already bloated legacy APIs (OpenGL is worse for this than DX). That massive complexity is one of the things that makes the drivers slow and APIs difficult to learn and use.

I agree that such an API can't be controlled by a single vendor though. Also I have little faith that the Khronos group can actually achieve anything useful after the OpenGL 3 fiasco and Microsoft is always all talk and no trousers when it comes to PC gaming so we may be stuck with Mantle for a while.

I don't think we'll be stuck with Mantle because game dev's aren't likely to jump on board and exclude more than half the market. Of course those developers which are part of the Gaming Evolved (Regressed? ) series will have the support but outside of this I don't think there'll be much - if any - support for it.

AMD need some good games to come in their GE series as Thief is disappointing (to the critics) and BF4 while now a mammoth series isn't exactly going to be spoken about in 10 years time as a classic.

The last good games I played from the GE series was Tomb Raider, Bioshock Infinite and Far Cry 3. At that point in time the quality of games you were getting free with GPUs was insane. Now it's a bit meh. Not AMDs fault though.

Sorry slightly off topic there .

 

[jakspyder]

At the end of the day, Mantle wasnt so much an AMD vs Nvidia thing. It was AMD vs Microsoft.

 

[shankly1985]

I don't think we'll be stuck with Mantle because game dev's aren't likely to jump on board and exclude more than half the market. Of course those developers which are part of the Gaming Evolved (Regressed? ) series will have the support but outside of this I don't think there'll be much - if any - support for it.

AMD need some good games to come in their GE series as Thief is disappointing (to the critics) and BF4 while now a mammoth series isn't exactly going to be spoken about in 10 years time as a classic.

The last good games I played from the GE series was Tomb Raider, Bioshock Infinite and Far Cry 3. At that point in time the quality of games you were getting free with GPUs was insane. Now it's a bit meh. Not AMDs fault though.

Sorry slightly off topic there .

Same could be said about physx, why would Devs add support for that when not everyone can use it?

Anyway this is all great news for everyone we all want to play better games and from playing with Mantle and seeing what low level can do the future is good.
But will Microsoft charge for this new low level? Windows 9 and a new gpu this something else I hate about Microsoft so look it that way also.

 

[Rusty0611]

Same could be said about physx, why would Devs add support for that when not everyone can use it?

Because there's a fundamental difference between a setting which can be turned on/off and is an added extra to a whole API. I get the point that you can always run DX if you can't run Mantle but if we're talking about Mantle becoming the new standard then then this isn't very new standard-esque. It's why Mantle won't become the new standard even though the direction it's going in is the correct one.

Had AMD not taken the bull by the horns, then we could have been in the same position in 5 years time though... who knows?

 

[Gregster]

Good job and well done AMD for getting MS to pull their finger out. Hopefully this won't take long and the guys with older CPU's/slower CPU's can just go for a GPU upgrade and hold off on the CPU. From reading around the unbiased Mantle users, it is nothing but disappointment. A few hard-core AMD users are showing some massive patience, which is fair play but no matter how Mantle is buttered up, it is proprietary and broken at present.

I have big hopes for OpenGL and hope they do get it working well in New games, as MS needs the competition. They have had it so good for so long and D3D has become very stagnant, with drip Fed advancements.

 

[Jakus]

DirectX embedded in the newer OS's we have been forced to run have been getting bloated and resource hungry for a while.. what a breath of fresh air !

 

[shankly1985]

Because there's a fundamental difference between a setting which can be turned on/off and is an added extra to a whole API. I get the point that you can always run DX if you can't run Mantle but if we're talking about Mantle becoming the new standard then then this isn't very new standard-esque. It's why Mantle won't become the new standard even though the direction it's going in is the correct one.

Had AMD not taken the bull by the horns, then we could have been in the same position in 5 years time though... who knows?

Amd never said it will replace DirectX but to work alongside of it.
The great thing about Amd Mantle and also TrueAudio they have the consoles behind them to support there new api and sound.
It's been said that the coding from the ps4 with that being GCN is very similar to that of the Pc Mantle. TrueAudio once used on ps4 from what I understand can easy be added to the pc port.