DirectX and OpenGL will start offering low-level access in order to reduce draw overhead

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

See,what a little competition ends up doing:

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/direc...el-access-to-reduce-draw-overhead/#more-62436

Thanks AMD for getting the ball rolling and making MS get off their backsides regarding DX.

“In this session we will discuss future improvements in Direct3D that will allow developers an unprecedented level of hardware control and reduced CPU rendering overhead across a broad ecosystem of hardware.”

“For nearly 20 years, DirectX has been the platform used by game developers to create the fastest, most visually impressive games on the planet.

However, you asked us to do more. You asked us to bring you even closer to the metal and to do so on an unparalleled assortment of hardware. You also asked us for better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone and console.”

“Driver overhead has been a frustrating reality for game developers for the entire life of the PC game industry. On desktop systems, driver overhead can decrease frame rate, while on mobile devices driver overhead is more insidious–robbing both battery life and frame rate. In this unprecedented sponsored session, Graham Sellers (AMD), Tim Foley (Intel), Cass Everitt (NVIDIA) and John McDonald (NVIDIA) will present high-level concepts available in today’s OpenGL implementations that radically reduce driver overhead–by up to 10x or more. The techniques presented will apply to all major vendors and are suitable for use across multiple platforms. Additionally, they will demonstrate practical demos of the techniques in action in an extensible, open source comparison framework.”

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Its also nice to see that AMD,Nvidia and Intel seem to all be interested in improving OpenGL performance to the point,representatives are having a session about it.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Yes this is good news, well done AMD for getting the ball rolling.

Now please let Mantle die, a one vendor API is no good for the industry and anyone believing NVidia would adopt it is nuts.

Lets hope NVAPI also goes away too,and that silly business with closed libraries,in the latest Batman game. Both companies should move to more open standards.

It also means Intel IGPs have a fairer chance too,although they are starting doing some interesting Intel only tricks to improve performance in GRID2 and Rome too(InstantAccess).

I suspect that we will never see any totally fair fight,as AMD,Nvidia and Intel do want to each get one up on their competition!!

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Sorry I made a thread about this ages ago which is six pages long:

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18583194

The Game Developers Conference is coming up and both DirectX and OpenGL have queued up some very very interesting reveals. These reveals, as you might have guessed are both dedicated at showing their respective solution to CPU Rendering Overhead and Low Level Access (Microsoft Only). If their claims have any weight what so ever, it wold effectively make Mantle Dead on Arrival.

Huge news PC gamers. While Nvidia has not commented yet on supporting Mantle, it appears that both DirectX and OpenGL will be catching up with AMD’s API. According to some slideshows from this year’s GDC, both DirectX and OpenGL will start offering low-level access in order to reduce draw overhead. This obviously translates to performance gains on older CPUs, something that will definitely excite PC gamers.

“In this session we will discuss future improvements in Direct3D that will allow developers an unprecedented level of hardware control and reduced CPU rendering overhead across a broad ecosystem of hardware.”

“For nearly 20 years, DirectX has been the platform used by game developers to create the fastest, most visually impressive games on the planet.

However, you asked us to do more. You asked us to bring you even closer to the metal and to do so on an unparalleled assortment of hardware. You also asked us for better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone and console.”

“Driver overhead has been a frustrating reality for game developers for the entire life of the PC game industry. On desktop systems, driver overhead can decrease frame rate, while on mobile devices driver overhead is more insidious–robbing both battery life and frame rate. In this unprecedented sponsored session, Graham Sellers (AMD), Tim Foley (Intel), Cass Everitt (NVIDIA) and John McDonald (NVIDIA) will present high-level concepts available in today’s OpenGL implementations that radically reduce driver overhead–by up to 10x or more. The techniques presented will apply to all major vendors and are suitable for use across multiple platforms. Additionally, they will demonstrate practical demos of the techniques in action in an extensible, open source comparison framework.”

The article in the OP was from two weeks ago and outside the sensationalism wccftech is know for at times,is based on the same information.

It on purpose ignores the bit about AMD contributing to GDC too.

Both the threads are about GDC.

Can the threads be merged,mods?? Why does this warrant another thread,when its using the same event??

Mine was started on the 26th of February. This was started on the 7th of March.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Sorry I made a thread about this ages ago which is six pages long:

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18583194





The article in the OP was from two weeks ago and outside the sensationalism wccftech is know for at times,is based on the same information.

It on purpose ignores the bit about AMD contributing to GDC too.

Both the threads are about GDC.

Can the threads be merged,mods?? Why does this warrant another thread,when its using the same event??

Mine was started on the 26th of February. This was started on the 7th of March.

DirectX and OpenGL will start offering low-level access in order to reduce draw overhead

So again mods,why is this thread still up?? Why are people being redirected to this thread:

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18586638

My one had a few hundred replies and a few thousand views already.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

So again mods,why is this thread still up?? Why are people being redirected to this thread:

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18586638

My one had a few hundred replies and a few thousand views already.

RTM cat or i doubt anything will happen. You can be sure someone RTM'd that other thread which got locked this morning.

Done it and nothing has happened.

It seems the mods like the OP a lot,especially considering how the title is worded.

Yet on several occasions they have had no problems merging other people's later threads(including mine) into others.

Wow,just wow.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Would be interesting if anyone watches the 'mods'.

The have done it for threads mere hours apart.

My one was 9 days before,with 175 posts.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The Game Developers Conference is coming up and both DirectX and OpenGL have queued up some very very interesting reveals. These reveals, as you might have guessed are both dedicated at showing their respective solution to CPU Rendering Overhead and Low Level Access (Microsoft Only). If their claims have any weight what so ever, it wold effectively make Mantle Dead on Arrival.

Huge news PC gamers. While Nvidia has not commented yet on supporting Mantle, it appears that both DirectX and OpenGL will be catching up with AMD’s API. According to some slideshows from this year’s GDC, both DirectX and OpenGL will start offering low-level access in order to reduce draw overhead. This obviously translates to performance gains on older CPUs, something that will definitely excite PC gamers.

“In this session we will discuss future improvements in Direct3D that will allow developers an unprecedented level of hardware control and reduced CPU rendering overhead across a broad ecosystem of hardware.”

“For nearly 20 years, DirectX has been the platform used by game developers to create the fastest, most visually impressive games on the planet.

However, you asked us to do more. You asked us to bring you even closer to the metal and to do so on an unparalleled assortment of hardware. You also asked us for better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone and console.”

“Driver overhead has been a frustrating reality for game developers for the entire life of the PC game industry. On desktop systems, driver overhead can decrease frame rate, while on mobile devices driver overhead is more insidious–robbing both battery life and frame rate. In this unprecedented sponsored session, Graham Sellers (AMD), Tim Foley (Intel), Cass Everitt (NVIDIA) and John McDonald (NVIDIA) will present high-level concepts available in today’s OpenGL implementations that radically reduce driver overhead–by up to 10x or more. The techniques presented will apply to all major vendors and are suitable for use across multiple platforms. Additionally, they will demonstrate practical demos of the techniques in action in an extensible, open source comparison framework.”

The article in the OP was from two weeks ago and outside the sensationalism wccftech is know for at times,is based on the same information.

It on purpose ignores the bit about AMD contributing to GDC too.

Both the threads are about GDC.

Can the threads be merged,mods?? Why does this warrant another thread,when its using the same event??

Mine was started on the 26th of February. This was started on the 7th of March.

Why are you so bothered? Get over yourself - it's just a thread for crying out loud.

Because a OP with a troll title,is allowed to exist when the one I made actually bothered to look at all sides.

It on purpose ignores the fact that AMD is part of the session.

Moreover,the mods always seem to merge threads,if they are on similar themes.

My one was 9 days earlier. No one can spin that however much they want to,and you need to get over it.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Depends - multiple mantle threads can get a bit tedious when they all descend into the same thing without fail.



OP has the same title as the original article. Move on; it's just a thread.

No-one is trying to spin anything. Nobody cares other than you. So I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be getting over exactly .

Email a mod if you're that bothered

Yes,you are spinning it.

Lets again look at the OP:

[Editorial] The Game Developers Conference is coming up and both DirectX and OpenGL have queued up some very very interesting reveals. These reveals, as you might have guessed are both dedicated at showing their respective solution to CPU Rendering Overhead and Low Level Access (Microsoft Only). If their claims have any weight what so ever, it wold effectively make Mantle Dead on Arrival. Mantle Dead on Arrival
Microsoft and Nvidia Queue Solutions to CPU Overhead and Low Level Access on GDC’14 – Mantle could be Dead on Arrival
As you probably already know, Mantle Low Level API improves the performance ingame by reducing the CPU Overhead and allowing more draw calls to be submitted to the GPU in a certain time frame. Basically it massively reduces load on the CPU, greatly helping CPU-Bound situations and Weak-CPU configurations. And of course as the name suggests, gives better access to Hardware. Now it seems that other developers have felt greatly threatened by the same because both DirectX and OpenGL are claiming to have solutions to CPU Overhead and improved Low Level Access. If this is true, then Mantle API would loose its edge entirely because Devs will not risk adapting a new API without major incentive. Here are the scheduled addresses for GDC’14:
Direct3D Futures (Presented by Microsoft)
“..discuss future improvements in Direct3D that will allow developers an unprecedented level of hardware control and reduced CPU rendering overhead across a broad ecosystem of hardware. “
DirectX: Evolving Microsoft’s Graphics Platform (Presented by Microsoft)
“You asked us to bring you even closer to the metal and to do so on an unparalleled assortment of hardware. You also asked us for better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone and console.”
Approaching Zero Driver Overhead in OpenGL (Presented by NVIDIA)
“…present high-level concepts available in today’s OpenGL implementations that radically reduce driver overhead–by up to 10x or more. The techniques presented will apply to all major vendors and are suitable for use across multiple platforms.”
Here is what Mantle API’s main features do:
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Low Level Access to the Hardware
More Drawcalls (x9)
New Rendering Techniques
Leveraging Optimization from Next Gen Game Consoles
Now Microsoft is addressing both the Low Level Access issue and the CPU Overhead issue. OpenGL is only adressing the CPU (and Driver) Overhead Issue. Problem is, if these claims are even slightly true then developers lose a lot of incentive to switch to Mantle. DirectX is already established, and if a new patch, and a little elbow grease can give you the same result as Mantle then they wont adapt a completely different API. Heck, OpenGL performs more stably than DirectX on many occasions yet Devs haven’t adopted that. Ofcourse the final factor will be when GDC’14 actually comes, but until then, things aren’t looking good for Mantle. I would also like to add that I felt very disappointed when I saw these queues. If they can suddenly, ‘magically’ pull such solutions out of the air then that means they were least bothered about it before, and only AMD’s pressure forced them to concede.

Not a single point about AMD being part of the session and working on OpenGL.

Sensationalist OP,on purpose ignoring what the thread I started said 9 days earlier:

See,what a little competition ends up doing:

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/direc...el-access-to-reduce-draw-overhead/#more-62436

Thanks AMD for getting the ball rolling and making MS get off their backsides regarding DX.

“In this session we will discuss future improvements in Direct3D that will allow developers an unprecedented level of hardware control and reduced CPU rendering overhead across a broad ecosystem of hardware.”

“For nearly 20 years, DirectX has been the platform used by game developers to create the fastest, most visually impressive games on the planet.

However, you asked us to do more. You asked us to bring you even closer to the metal and to do so on an unparalleled assortment of hardware. You also asked us for better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone and console.”

“Driver overhead has been a frustrating reality for game developers for the entire life of the PC game industry. On desktop systems, driver overhead can decrease frame rate, while on mobile devices driver overhead is more insidious–robbing both battery life and frame rate. In this unprecedented sponsored session, Graham Sellers (AMD), Tim Foley (Intel), Cass Everitt (NVIDIA) and John McDonald (NVIDIA) will present high-level concepts available in today’s OpenGL implementations that radically reduce driver overhead–by up to 10x or more. The techniques presented will apply to all major vendors and are suitable for use across multiple platforms. Additionally, they will demonstrate practical demos of the techniques in action in an extensible, open source comparison framework.”

The article says GDC 2014 and was published on February 26TH.

Both are talking about GDC 2014. Both are talking about OpenGL..

Except his on on purpose twists it to make it look like AMD is not part of it.

Lets look at the article OP linked to - it was posted just after that one I linked to,ie, February 28TH.

But it gets better.

He waited a week until the other thread drop down the list and made this thread on the 7TH.

However,in that thread he is on the first page of replies:

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18583194

So he started this thread,after he posted in the other thread himself. He knew that very well.

I like how the mods,find that OK.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The worst thing is that AMD respond weeks ago,to people talking about GDC:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-mantle-opengl-directx-gdc-2014,26188.html

AMD responds to talk about DirectX and OpenGL being lower in the software stack.

AMD is currently responding to reports that DirectX and OpenGL may allow low-level hardware access. An AMD rep says that the company supports and celebrates a direction for game development that is aligned with AMD’s vision.

The response stems from session descriptions pulled from the DirectX and OpenGl presentations that will take place in GDC 2014. According to one session on Direct3D, presenters will discuss future improvements in Direct3D that will allow developers an “unprecedented level of hardware control and reduced CPU rendering overhead across a broad ecosystem of hardware”.

“You asked us to do more,” the DirectX session reads. “You asked us to bring you even closer to the metal and to do so on an unparalleled assortment of hardware. You also asked us for better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone and console.”

For OpenGL, we have this session description: “Graham Sellers (AMD), Tim Foley (Intel), Cass Everitt (NVIDIA) and John McDonald (NVIDIA) will present high-level concepts available in today's OpenGL implementations that radically reduce driver overhead--by up to 10x or more. The techniques presented will apply to all major vendors and are suitable for use across multiple platforms.”

In a way, AMD’s Mantle has pushed the Khronos group (OpenGL) and Microsoft (DirectX) to take the “lower level” route. However the question is: what will happen to Mantle then? Will developers no longer need Mantle with DirectX and OpenGL hovering at the same level in the software stack?

“AMD would like you to know that it supports and celebrates a direction for game development that is aligned with AMD’s vision of lower-level, ‘closer to the metal’ graphics APIs for PC gaming,” reports an AMD rep. “While industry experts expect this to take some time, developers can immediately leverage efficient API design using Mantle, and AMD is very excited to share the future of our own API with developers at this year’s Game Developers Conference.”

“We’ll be sure to share more news and detail with you closer to GDC,” the rep adds.

What will be interesting to see is where all three will go from here. Will Mantle and DirectX somehow merge ideas so that AMD gamers still get the Mantle benefits when using DirectX to run a game? As AMD points out, we’ll find out more at GDC 2014.

That was two days after the article I linked to.

That wccftech article on purpose ignored multiple indications of AMD being at the session with Nvidia and Intel.

The mods have merged multiple thread when one predates another.

Not in this case,especially with a 9 day difference and more importantly an OP which is half truth.

Plus the person who posted it posted in the earlier thread,more than once.

Absolutely fantastic.Not.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

That's not jumping to his defence it's just stating it how it is. Greg is ugly enough and most definitely old enough to fight his own battles. Alas my point was more about the constant moaning about how ones thread hasn't taken precedence.

And let's be honest if the mods were being consistent in merging a lot of the mantle threads would have been closed too. It's not a perfect science.

Its not about precedence.

Its about how the OP is 9 days older and the fact it on purpose twists GDC2014 into some Nvidia/Intel event. The OP posted in that older thread,so you push it anyway you want,but he knew very well when he started this thread.

Except the spin is deflated by multiple sources saying AMD is a very willing part of GDC2014 in a session with both Intel and Nvidia.

Its just a troll,sensationalist pile of rubbish article done by wccftech to gain more page hits. They have on several occasions twisted information and taken credit from others.

You do realise he waited a week after the "article" was published to post it,and that was 9 days after the original thread which he himself posted in.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I have heard you the first time Cat. And I still don't really care. Email a mod.

Of course you say that. It fits you that the OP is distorted on purpose,instead of the real facts.

The fact that you are making repeated excuses for the spin,indicates you are trying to defend it and that you do care.

If you didn't care,you would have not bothered answering then would you??

This is nothing but a troll thread with distorted reporting in the OP. Spin more in defence of it.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Why does it fit me?



Where am I making excuses for the spin?



I made a point that your continued whinging about this thread taking precedence over your own wasn't really getting you anywhere. That's where my point starts and ends.



As above - show me my spin on the contents of the article please?

Spin more,and deflect from the distorted OP. It seems you like distortion of facts,to stay unreported.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Cat, as you can see, I didn't Troll as you put it and did report it exactly how it was. I didn't sensationalise anything and didn't even comment in the OP to save any misreadings.

Take it up with the Mods if you have a problem with me.

Which is funny how you responded repeatedly in the other thread,which was saying the same thing.

You knew very well AMD was part of the session as I quoted it in the other one.

Yet you waited until the other one dropped off the front page,then started a new thread which conveniently ignored that AMD was part of the same session. That wccftech "article" was a week old already when you posted it.

By then AMD had even made an official PR announcement that they would be a GDC2014.

If you aiming for true reporting of the facts,a simple modification of the OP and title with all the information would suffice.

There are multiple articles you can quote from.

@CAT-THE-FIFTH
Don't waste your time.
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18585435&page=8

Probably,but if happens there are more serious questions which need to be asked.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I see a thread on Wccftech, which I found interesting and reported it here. I didn't deem it the same as the thread you created and I still don't. I copied and pasted, so as to not put my spin on it and stand to be lambasted for Trolling/Fanboyism's.

Why are you still crying about this, as they are 2 different threads.

Give it up for goodness sake.

It conveniently has to be one with the following title:

"DirectX and OpenGL Claiming to have solved CPU Overhead – If True, Mantle is Dead On Arrival"

One week after it was published too.

Plus no they are not different,since you are quoting the same thing from GDC 2014.

At the very least change the OP so it reflects the reality.

You found the one article which ignores AMD being part of GDC 2014.

Lets see the articles talking about GDC 2014 before the 29th of February:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7818/low-level-graphics-api-developments-gdc-2014

Mentions AMD.

http://www.pcper.com/news/Graphics-Cards/DirectX-12-and-new-OpenGL-challenge-AMD-Mantle-coming-GDC

Mentions AMD.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-mantle-opengl-directx-gdc-2014,26188.html

Mentions AMD.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/directx-direct3d-opengl-mantle,26167.html

Mentions AMD.

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/direc...el-access-to-reduce-draw-overhead/#more-62436

Mentions AMD.

https://developer.nvidia.com/content/gdc-2014

Mentions AMD. NVIDIA mentions AMD at the session.

All published in February 2014.

You found the one article,which does not mention AMD. The planets must have aligned for that one,especially since NVIDIA themselves mentioned AMD being part of the session.

Yet,you really are trying to feign ignorance. Yes,OFC.

I am entirely mistaken it seems.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Green is green. Spoon is stir, we all get that. Please let's move on!

Might as well.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Bah,play on PS2 without spending any money.

That separates the Men from the other men.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I couldn't get into PS2. Shame because on paper it's right up my street.

It has a steep learning curve,and it involved getting my arse handed to me repeatedly. However,as time progressed,I got better upgrades which helped.

PS2 has some epic battles though.