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DirectX and OpenGL will start offering low-level access in order to reduce draw overhead

MjFrosty said:
You know AMD are part of the Khronos group, right? People seem to forget that it would be very easy, considering AMD are paid up within it to have released Mantle within it. But they didn't.

The extra GPU sales were obviously more important than all the industry advancement marketing hyperbole. But the under dog and indestructible ivory tower can never do any wrong, it's NV that are the lock-down anti consumerists.

Better things will come out of AMDs venture, much like sea incrustation did many millions of years ago lol. Bleak but true.

The only way a new thriving API will root itself is if it is released as an open standard from it's very beggining and available within something as established as Khronos, not necessarily having to be Khronos.
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I know AMD is part of Khronos I've read most of the white papers from them and the meeting transcripts. I can say without a doubt; leadership in Khronos is **** and not effective; or it wouldn't of taken them 10+ years to finally catch DX in features.

Second source? Show me where AMD was offered money to put mantle into opengl/opencl?? Seriously I'll retrack a few things I've said if that's true; or just more random babblings because of what I said is completely true and rains on this glorious day of empty promises again from MS and Khronos?

You said it with Nvidia; name a tech that Nvidia has actually invented and allowed others to use?

Like it or not AMD is pushing the gaming field. I know people don't like hearing that; but with locking up consoles *again partly to do to the fact they had a product Nvidia just couldn't even come close to; another do to the fact Nvidia are a nightmare to work with; this comes from both MS and Sony*

AMD put out tressfx; could have easily locked it and didn't.....Mantle can *I'm willing easily to bet a 100 pounds that in 2-4 years mantle will be open to all*

Without a complete restart from both DX and Opengl we're not going to see gains we're just starting to see with mantle.

Do I want to see Nvidia go? No; but I've worked with them in the past and seriously dislike their business practices. Who's done more to move the industry forward in the last few years or who has dragged their feet on implimenting standards; trying to lock people into their own ecco system?

rest of your post while colorful in language is useless.......;)
 
LtMatt said:
To see how broken it is, have a look here.
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Well I am home from work and thought I would compare my frames with yours and at 1440P with settings on full and to be fair, your mantle results are almost as fast as my Titan results at the same settings, so good stuff. With just comparing screenshots, I was only ahead by 3-10 frames and that was with standing in the exact same positions as you on your screen shots.

I have to say if that is what you get with DX, then something is wrong with DX performance. I always thought the 290's were roughly on par with Titans (give or take) and DX is massively down to what it was before on 13.12.

Anyways, I am still going off on a tangent and yer, DX isn't as bad for big CPU's :)
 
Would not get your hopes up too much this is most likely going to be tied to Windows 8.1 as MS have stated in the past they are not doing anymore major updates to Windows 7 as it would involve too much effort/cost on their part :rolleyes:
 
Gregster said:
I have to say if that is what you get with DX, then something is wrong with DX performance. I always thought the 290's were roughly on par with Titans (give or take) and DX is massively down to what it was before on 13.12.
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No its not, i can tell you that from experience, where did this nonsense even come from?

it looks like an argument that was invented to me.
 
There's a ton of people who had DirectX performance dips with 14.1.

Mine was crippled, absolutely flipping destroyed, Lost well over half in the games I was playing at the time, and there's tons of examples, threads on forums, threads here etc, etc.
 
humbug said:
"and DX is massively down to what it was before on 13.12."
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Ok, so you think that this is good frames for a pair of 290's @ 1440P?

6ffb30a976882aa344fc63b9b6199ab0.jpg
 
No picture in that ^^^

Martini1991 said:
There's a ton of people who had DirectX performance dips with 14.1.

Mine was crippled, absolutely flipping destroyed, Lost well over half in the games I was playing at the time, and there's tons of examples, threads on forums, threads here etc, etc.
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Might be another intermittent issue with 14.1. there is no performance difference between 12.13 and 14.1 for me at all.

How is it on 14.2?
 
humbug said:
Might be another issue with 14.1. there is no performance difference between 12.13 and 14.1 for me at all.
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But you can't give a statement saying Greg's talking nonesense when there's tons of evidence to the contrary.

I haven't updated to 14.2, I don't intend to either, the mess 14.1 did to my directX performance required a windows reinstall so I'm going to wait for WHQL.

Thief's on UE3 but the performance seems dire for what it is IMO, I'll play it with mantle and a WHQL.
 
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meldarthx said:
I know AMD is part of Khronos I've read most of the white papers from them and the meeting transcripts. I can say without a doubt; leadership in Khronos is **** and not effective; or it wouldn't of taken them 10+ years to finally catch DX in features.

Second source? Show me where AMD was offered money to put mantle into opengl/opencl?? Seriously I'll retrack a few things I've said if that's true; or just more random babblings because of what I said is completely true and rains on this glorious day of empty promises again from MS and Khronos?

You said it with Nvidia; name a tech that Nvidia has actually invented and allowed others to use?

Like it or not AMD is pushing the gaming field. I know people don't like hearing that; but with locking up consoles *again partly to do to the fact they had a product Nvidia just couldn't even come close to; another do to the fact Nvidia are a nightmare to work with; this comes from both MS and Sony*

AMD put out tressfx; could have easily locked it and didn't.....Mantle can *I'm willing easily to bet a 100 pounds that in 2-4 years mantle will be open to all*

Without a complete restart from both DX and Opengl we're not going to see gains we're just starting to see with mantle.

Do I want to see Nvidia go? No; but I've worked with them in the past and seriously dislike their business practices. Who's done more to move the industry forward in the last few years or who has dragged their feet on implimenting standards; trying to lock people into their own ecco system?

rest of your post while colorful in language is useless.......;)
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Xbox One will use Mantle then will it. Is that your definition of locked down? Or were you half way through an AMD to the end speech getting sidetracked like many before you preaching about a 2013 hardware contract :D.

OpenGL hasn't taken any length of time to catch up with anything, that's a totally misinformed opinion based on a brief look at past tense. OpenGL was forced out of the race, as many have said already within Vista and DX10. I never said AMD had been paid via Khronos I said they could have easily made it open source. Khronos is funded by it's founders and members, and as such it would benefit end users far greater if this funding went into Khronos as a universal project, but it didn't. AMD are a corporation like any other and, being frank, there's no point trying to speak reason with someone as firmly planted as yourself - it's much easier to let history take it's course :D.

vendor controlled API. Those three words speak truth, and the hypocrisy of some of you regarding it is spell binding. Don't get this confused with how impressive Mantles results are, it's a breath of fresh air and it is certainly showing what needs to happen. But this is a test audience of GCN users, and if Mantle becomes more unified these results will vary very differently, if it ever transpired. Which it more than likely won't.

So before anyone jumps down my throat, Mantle as a technology IS without question a step above and beyond what DirectX is offering. But as a long standing solution it's what Elton John would call a candle in the wind.
 
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Nordic hardware did some testing on BF4 and Mantle using the same CPU for all cards just a few days back. This was on 14.1 and there are no problems with 14.1 (and 13.11 Beta 9 - same as 13.12 WHQL) dx performance here. Though i know for some people (Martini etc) there were problems. I never tested 14.1 for long, but 14.2 is fine on dx and mantle.

HitdnDA.png


Source
http://www.nordichardware.se/Statio...or/Prestandatester-och-summering.html#content
http://www.nordichardware.se/Grafik...standa-i-bf4-med-nya-geforce-drivrutiner.html

Greg your results can't really be compared to mine that effectively as your cpu will sway things i expect, considering BF4 loves cores/threads. I'd get better fps on dx11 if my gpu's weren't being bottlenecked. Would be interesting if you ran your cpu with only 4 cores and 8 threads as a comparison to mine. All results on the same i7 6 core cpu show a titan and a 290 matched in performance at stock. Not bad when one titan costs considerably more than two 290's i think.

I'd also love to watch you actually play and record using ShadowPlay on a 64 man conquest large server with tank gameplay. See if you can back up your claims. :D
 
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Rusty0611 said:
Personally I don't think Mantle is the answer anyway as having an API developed and ultimately controlled by a GPU manufacturer does not sit comfortably.
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Does PhysX and anything else NVIDIA related sit ok with you though? Mantle can be turned on or off just AMD owners HAVE to do with PhysX.
NVIDIA could easily allow it to run on CPU's like they used to but that stopped now! I'm not very comfortable with that myself. NVIDIA go out of their way to stop AMD using PhysX, AMD have made mantle open.

PhysX may need CUDA cores to run the best, as Mantle may need GCN to run best but at least Mantle makes it an option...PhysX is exclusive.
 
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