What are the origins of the Northen Ireland loyalists?

Golf1.6

Golf1.6

Golf1.6

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Always wondered how a group of people who were part of Ireland wanted to become part of a neighbouring country and take up arms against other countrymen in the process.

Well that's a very simplistic view I guess, I'm sure it's a lot more complicated.

I thought either

1) Native Irish wanted to break away from the Catholic church and decided to convert to protestantism and ally with England in order to get backing from a major power to do so.

2) Loyalists were planted English, Welsh & Scottish people who naturally had loyalty to England/Britain.

Can someone explain to me in a nutshell who the loyalists are descendants of. Also what is it with the freemason-ish symbolism and language surrounding it.
 
The Loyalists are mostly settlers from Scotland and England. Ireland was once part of Britain, so they are not trying to join another country, they are trying to remain within their country.

Ireland should all be British anyway.

Loyalists are descendant from the Scottish. That's why we have such a chip on our shoulder. Inherited genetically.
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I take it you're from London then?
 
Thompson_NCL said:
Ireland should all be British anyway
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Can I ask your reasoning behind this point?

With regards to the OP:

I understand why loyalists in the north want to stay within the UK, it's a better economic situation and they have ties back to the UK through their ancestors.

I also understand why republicans in the north want to join the south in a united Ireland. They feel Irish, they want to be part of a greater Ireland, they see the loyalists as an invading, occupying force.

What I don't understand is the people that feel that resorting to violence will ever help resolve the issue. I think what's happening there at the moment with dual control of the NI parliament and help both politically and economically from Ireland and the UK is the best way forward. Obviously there will still be conflicts for as long as there are people not getting their way but the situation is so close to being a 50/50 issue in terms of population on each side that unilaterally deciding the situation one way or the other just won't work.
 
basically, england settled/invaded ireland several times under an alternating succession of catholic and protestant monarchs.

during ww2 ireland was given independance as a kind of payment for not siding with the germans. northern ireland stayed with england, and folks are still bickering about it all to this day.


speaking from a purely economical perspective, england scotland and ireland should unite because one big nation is better than half a dozen tiny nations. but the moment you bring politics/religion into things it gets complicated fast.

my personal view on the political troubles is simply that the irish/northern irish love nothing more than a good old bicker about something, and lacking any foreign immigration on a large scale chose to opt for fighting amongst faiths instead. or alternatively its just idiots with pointless grudges. unlike what some would think, it really isnt the dark ages over there's just some streets in belfast you dont walk down with an english accent and others you dont walk down if your ginger.

edit: on a humorous note, wouldn't it be great to be an islamic extremist in northern ireland? you could plant all the bombs you liked and nobody would ever suspect you
 
The issues go back longer, essentially when Ireland was originally reincorporated into the soon to be British empire settlers were sent over to create an area where British support would be high. In essence this would give a beach head if any revolt occurred. Several hundred years later and it appears the plan was effective.
 
adolf hamster said:
during ww2 ireland was given independance as a kind of payment for not siding with the germans. northern ireland stayed with england, and folks are still bickering about it all to this day.
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What? The Irish fought for independence during the Irish war of independence and won, creating the Irish free state in the 1920s. Northern Ireland was partitioned off because the majority there wanted to remain part of Great Britain. The Protestant majority in Northern Ireland then set about oppressing the catholic minority which finally kicked off the civil rights movement and then ultimately "The Troubles".
 
i meant the whole 'independance in principle thing' churchill gave to eamon de valera because of his fears that the south would side with hitler [not because they liked hitler but to get on the backs of the english]

as for the whole [insert religion here] opressing [insert religion here] thing read 'bickering'
 
adolf hamster said:
i meant the whole 'independance in principle thing' churchill gave to eamon de valera because of his fears that the south would side with hitler [not because they liked hitler but to get on the backs of the english]

as for the whole [insert religion here] opressing [insert religion here] thing read 'bickering'
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I answered you :p
 
Later on, Protestant settlers were shipped over to places like Ulster and Munster around the 16th century, give or take a century with Irish Catholics forcibly removed from their lands and replaced by the settlers.
 
yeah, like i said boils down to the english, i feel entitled to say this given i'm a cornishman by birth and therefore not [entirely] biased. northern irish politics these days is a mystery to me although i'll confess it makes for some great comedy material.
 
adolf hamster said:
i meant the whole 'independance in principle thing' churchill gave to eamon de valera because of his fears that the south would side with hitler [not because they liked hitler but to get on the backs of the english]

as for the whole [insert religion here] opressing [insert religion here] thing read 'bickering'
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Independance for the whole of ireland was already agreed in principle before the 1900's in parliament due to the efforts of O'Connell and other peaceful figureheads. :/ it took several decades to try and force it through the lords (mainly landowners) which eventually lead to the rules we have now (the lords cant block legislation after certain number of attempts) which was introduced by Lloyd George to help solve the irish problem.

Unfortunately just as it got agreed WW1 broke out which put a halt on the whole thing, by the end of the war the irish got less patient and revolted, unfortunately both sides (union and loyalist) claiming they should get what they want due to their sacrifices in WW1 (not 2) and thus the clause where Ulster could chose to stay in the free state or not was added to the legislation...and they promptly left the free state and declared to remain part of britain. Churchill was worried about Ireland in WW1 (and with good reason) not so much WW2.

yeah, like i said boils down to the english,
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Well no...just as much lowland scots as the english. it would be more accurate to view the plantations as part of a religious settlement/debate not a nationalist one.
 
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Don't forget that Irish immigrants forcibly settled Scotland. In fact the name Scotland comes from the Scoti tribe who were from Ireland.
 
on the ww2 thingt didnt the IRA side with the nazis and bomb various parts of england at the start of the war?
 
Tefal said:
on the ww2 thingt didnt the IRA side with the nazis and bomb various parts of england at the start of the war?
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Dunno about that but the Irish government of the time took a position of neutrality with Adolf Hitler, basically because they didn't want to side with Great Britain. They also decided to join the Euro for pretty much the same reasons lol.
 
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