Doreen Lawrence and covert surveillance.

Orionaut

Orionaut

Orionaut

Soldato
Joined
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So this is the most recent of the “Horrific Revelations” surrounding the original murder enquiry.

No doubt great issue will be made of this over how this is just another example of how the Lawrence family was mistreated by the Police at the time (and much public hand-wringing will no doubt ensue)

Or is it...?

I remember the original news coverage. Everywhere the Lawrence family went they were surrounded by groups of Nation of Islam minders (Distinct by their smart dark suits and bow ties)

A quick web search revealed this report on the NOI from the FBI archives. (There are other searchable archives concerning the NOI on the FBI site) There are also anecdotal links between the NOI and the Zebra Murders, a series of racially motivated murders that took place during the 70's (I will leave you all the pleasure of searching for that yourselves! :) )

So yes, If the Lawrence family had allied themselves with the NOI then they damn well needed to be survailled! (Is that a word?) and I have absolutely no issue with the fact that they were!

Of course, Covert surveillance, by its nature, always involves issues surrounding lies, deception and breach of trust, even “Inappropriate relationships”! That is the nature of the game, whoever is having an eye kept on them, there is of course the wider issue about whether we should be happy that such methods are ever used but within the context I don’t see that the Lawrence family were picked out for any special attention. If one associates with terrorist organisations, one is going to get watched!
 
mlbtheshow said:
How much more money do they want?

All aboard the dead black son gravy train
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Wow.


In terms of the actual situation in discussion, it's all down to the intention of the surveillance, I think. If the family were indeed seen to be aligning themselves with potentially malignant entities in the search for justice and closure to their grief, then that did need to be closely monitored. If they went full-on right down the rabbit hole in their pursuit, it could have led to far worse things for them. In that sense, it's justified.

If, however, the intention was to surreptitiously build discredit of the family in order to keep them quiet, then it's unfathomably disgusting.

The whole affair is a disgrace from start to finish.
 
I once witnessed the racist Met, with a black friend in Central London 3 coppers walk up to us throw him against a wall and tell him he's being searched, totally ignored me and when I questioned them under what grounds they are searching him, I was told to "shut up, we aren't interesed in a white boy" totally heavy handed and surprise surprise complaining with the numbers of all officers got a standard we investigated and fully support our officers BS
 
bitslice said:
Maybe the person reported as a suspect was black?

Although going on a single encounter with the Met, I'm inclined to believe any old story about them.
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It was a stop and search, I think that's widely accepted as being used to harass black people by the met
 
As a serving police officer who wasn't even born at the time and with nothing to do with the original investigation, I am tired of people coming up to me and telling me how much of a disgrace I am. If they had any sense they would realize that it wasn't actually the entire service that was responsible.
 
I can't see how hard it is to find those responsible...orders must have been given by somebody
 
Seasaw said:
As a serving police officer who wasn't even born at the time and with nothing to do with the original investigation, I am tired of people coming up to me and telling me how much of a disgrace I am. If they had any sense they would realize that it wasn't actually the entire service that was responsible.
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But at the same time the 'force' should never have taken these actions, or at least apologised for doing so. Be angry at your organisation, the bosses who hide information and drag these things out not personally admitting fault.
 
It makes you wonder just how many more of these 'incidents' are going to come out of the woodwork. Plebgate, phone 'hacking', Hillsborough, SDS/Lawrence family, controversy over alleged unlawful killings/hard stop tactics, Ian Tomlinson, fudging numbers for targets etc (let's be honest most this behaviour isn't just been carried out by the police).

My own/friends/family personal experience of the police has left me with a bitter taste but I am not naive enough to assume all police are racist and corrupt. I know several serving police officers who are anything but [the above]. And yes it is unlikely for the media to

However is there not an emerging pattern of 'if something goes wrong' - a look after your own mentality is employed which seems go from being obstructive to an investigation, incompetent in an investigation, lying, covering up, passing the buck or denial?

With this spying case, as with Hillsborough, all that I think will happen is that 'firm action' will be promised by those investigating and those involved will deny followed by no/little action been taken (if there is a case to answer for) and some recommendations will be made to stop it happening again. The police are a lot better now than a few decades ago but it has taken decades for some of this to come out!

Corruption, to me, is a big problem and more needs to be done.
 
MrMoonX said:
I once witnessed the racist Met, with a black friend in Central London 3 coppers walk up to us throw him against a wall and tell him he's being searched, totally ignored me and when I questioned them under what grounds they are searching him, I was told to "shut up, we aren't interesed in a white boy" totally heavy handed and surprise surprise complaining with the numbers of all officers got a standard we investigated and fully support our officers BS
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You always do have the most interesting anecdotes.
 
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