Poll: Nick Clegg vs Nigel Farage - EU Debate

[badcompany]

I don't get why the gay marriage question was thrown in? That's party politics, and not really the EU topic of the debate...

Cheap shot at ukip in true democracy something like that should be put to the public to vote on.

 

[Marmot]

Clegg did much better than I expected, hopefully the general public will look past the charisma of Farage and spot the glaring holes in his argument.

 

[Burnsy2023]

It takes jobs as for example a builder from Romania charges less than a British one, thus the British lose out and jobs are lost for British workers. To live at our standard its near impossible to compete with their prices, and creates a race to the bottom. This also use to be a loop hole of course. One way into the country is to have work lined up, what better way then to set up your own small business, or be employed by one doing the same.

Lets look at all the small retail shops that are run by migrants. Do they make British people lose out?

 

[darkgen]

I's really important that if a referendum is going to be given that the British public are properly educated to make an informed opinion. At the moment many of the British public are very poorly informed.

That's irrelevant. Should we prevent / remove all referendums with such logic?

 

[kindai]

I's really important that if a referendum is going to be given that the British public are properly educated to make an informed opinion. At the moment many of the British public are very poorly informed.

And by the time it comes around, they'll still be as uninformed.

 

[Nitefly]

A referendum would be based on principles rather than actual merit.

Decisions regarding the EU should be kept as far away from the voting public as possible. Particularly when everyone seems to think that the EU equates to 'immigration and human rights'.

 

[Flapduckquack]

I's really important that if a referendum is going to be given that the British public are properly educated to make an informed opinion. At the moment many of the British public are very poorly informed.

The tabloids don't help much with that situation at all, putting extreme cases up where the majority isn't as it's being portrayed. Often like the vulnerable (the minorities) they like to attack. JSA makes up only 3% roughly of the entire benefit bill, but is often blamed for much more, a lot like these situations.

 

[Burnsy2023]

That's irrelevant. Should we prevent / remove all referendums with such logic?

Or just have some balanced debates showing both sides of the argument? The pro-europe side has been frustratingly quiet to date.

And by the time it comes around, they'll still be as uninformed.

Perhaps.

 

[greywolf]

Lets look at all the small retail shops that are run by migrants. Do they make British people lose out?

Yes, when that shop could have been let to a British person. Often these migrant run shops are family run or with other migrants. So the loss of jobs to British workers again.

 

[Burnsy2023]

The tabloids don't help much with that situation at all, putting extreme cases up where the majority isn't as it's being portrayed. Often like the vulnerable (the minorities) they like to attack. JSA makes up only 3% roughly of the entire benefit bill, but is often blamed for much more, a lot like these situations.

Indeed. There are so many benefits of the EU that simply aren't communicated to the public. Perhaps because there are few pro EU newspapers?

 

[Glaucus]

The whole thing is so tiresome.

Just give the British people a referendum on the current membership agreements, regardless of future proposals / discussions. Generation X et al deserves that right.

Sod that, you think even 5% of the population have any clue at all.

 

[darkgen]

Hence throw it out there and get it out of the way. Democracy isn't a methodology for wisdom and intelligence, simply majority.

 

[Westyfield2]

@Burnsy2023: I'd agree with you that the general public is thick. But if we let them vote in general elections, drive cars, own knives, breathe oxygen, etc… then why not let them vote in in an EU referendum also?

 

[darkgen]

Sod that, you think even 5% of the population have any clue at all.

With that same logic, what the hell is the point of any referendum then?

 

[Burnsy2023]

Yes, when that shop could have been let to a British person.

There is more than enough retail locations for people to do this if they want to. They don't though. They don't because our lower skilled population isn't as entrepreneurial as a culture as many others. You're saying that if migrants weren't here then British people would all be going out there and making businesses. That's a total fallacy.

 

[Hyburnate]

@Burnsy2023: I'd agree with you that the general public is thick. But if we let them vote in general elections, drive cars, own knives, breathe oxygen, etc… then why not let them vote in in an EU referendum also?

There was a bill going through to allow this, I'm not sure how far it got.

e; It was killed off, frigging house of lords

 

[Burnsy2023]

@Burnsy2023: I'd agree with you that the general public is thick. But if we let them vote in general elections, drive cars, own knives, breathe oxygen, etc… then why not let them vote in in an EU referendum also?

If you had kids (and you might already) and would you give them the choice to just eat Haribo as much as they want or would you wait until their older and wiser before giving them the choice over their diet?

 

[Glaucus]

With that same logic, what the hell is the point of any referendum then?

There isn't. Referendums are stupid. Especially un the case of EU where it's so complicated. Not taking the Euro has lost us huge amounts of business as things just cost to much.
Elections should work slightly different, but don't really work in practice. As governments should be guided by teams of people trained in relevant fields. Although this isn't usually the case, or they just ignore the experts. So you're voting for ideology and who you think will run things better.

 

[Flapduckquack]

Indeed. There are so many benefits of the EU that simply aren't communicated to the public. Perhaps because there are few pro EU newspapers?

Yeah, one good example is the human rights act that gets trumped a lot in the tabloids, with them always putting up the extreme cases (obviously trying to create hate, an agenda)

One good example i thought was that girl who was forced into the workfare scheme after graduating history (or something similar) and told to stack shelves for 'training' when she had a volunteer place for a museum. She went to court and lost here, but appealed with the human rights and she won.

It's just as much as they're her rights, they are your's, mine and everybody's imho.

I usually read the Guardian personally, i find even the BBC makes me scratch my head sometimes.

 

[estebanrey]

Can we have a third option, "shake it all about"?