Poll: Nick Clegg vs Nigel Farage - EU Debate

[Hyburnate]

Yeah, one good example is the human rights act that gets trumped a lot in the tabloids, with them always putting up the extreme cases (obviously trying to create hate, an agenda)

One good example i thought was that girl who was forced into the workfare scheme after graduating history (or something similar) and told to stack shelves for 'training' when she had a volunteer place for a museum. She went to court and lost here, but appealed with the human rights and she won.

It's just as much as they're her rights, they are your's, mine and everybody's imho.

I usually read the Guardian personally, i find even the BBC makes me scratch my head sometimes.

Yep, but can we not forget that the European Union (EU) and the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) are two very different things. The ECHR are absolutely fantastic and have the power to change ours laws, a piece of legislation very close to my heart is the piece of **** that s44 was (I'm sure Burnsy knows what I'm talking about and I'm sure he probably enforced it at some point) it was an abused law and I wont derail by going into details but google has the answers.

 

[MrMoonX]

A referendum would be based on principles rather than actual merit.

Decisions regarding the EU should be kept as far away from the voting public as possible. Particularly when everyone seems to think that the EU equates to 'immigration and human rights'.

Yeah and the human rights act, 1998 is uk statute people don't realise that we made that law. It's a good one too

Looking at the results of this poll a referendum would condem this country to economic isolation

 

[Sliver]

Can we have a third option, "shake it all about"?

The last time I did that I got arrested.

 

[greywolf]

There is more than enough retail locations for people to do this if they want to. They don't though. They don't because our lower skilled population isn't as entrepreneurial as a culture as many others. You're saying that if migrants weren't here then British people would all be going out there and making businesses. That's a total fallacy.

I am not sure you can tar our whole low skilled population with the same brush that they are not as entrepreneurial. We did just fine years a go before large scale immigration. However, you are now priced out of the market as a race to the bottom. Migrants force the wage down, especially for services, you might want to run X business but due to migrants you can't charge what is the actual true price for the service/ jobs etc. Making that job one you cannot live from.

 

[darkgen]

There isn't. Referendums are stupid.
Elections should work slightly different, but don't really work in practice. As governments should be guided by teams of people trained in relevant fields. Although this isn't usually the case, or they just ignore the experts. So you're boring for ideology and who you think will run things better.

Ergo majority rules (to an extent). I entirely agree it’s a flawed system, but it’s one which has bumbled along for several hundred years.
Why should this specific argument be barred from it? It wasn’t in 1975.

 

[Burnsy2023]

Yep, but can we not forget that the European Union (EU) and the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) are two very different things. The ECHR are absolutely fantastic and have the power to change ours laws, a piece of legislation very close to my heart is the piece of **** that s44 was (I'm sure Burnsy knows what I'm talking about and I'm sure he probably enforced it at some point) it was an abused law and I wont derail by going into details but google has the answers.

S44 as it stood previously wasn't really used that much outside of London and very few of the officers I know have used much of the terrorism legislation at all. That said, knowing what power the Terrorism Act gives to police, it does scare me sometimes. I think the ECHR intervention has lead to better legislation domestically.

 

[Nitefly]

Yeah and the human rights act, 1998 is uk statute people don't realise that we made that law. It's a good one too.

I agree. It's ingenious.

 

[Glaucus]

Ergo majority rules (to an extent). I entirely agree it’s a flawed system, but it’s one which has bumbled along for several hundred years.
Why should this specific argument be barred from it? It wasn’t in 1975.

Why should we continue accepting rubbish, rather than striving for a better system. Not having a referendum is a tiny first step. What we need is a new government system, enforced by an extremely tight and well thought out constitution.

 

[Burnsy2023]

I am not sure you can tar our whole low skilled population with the same brush that they are not as entrepreneurial.

When you compare us to the Chinese or much of the indian subcontinent, we aren't as entrepreneurial as they are.

We did just fine years a go before large scale immigration.

And when would that be?

However, you are now priced out of the market as a race to the bottom. Migrants force the wage down, especially for services, you might want to run X business but due to migrants you can't charge what is the actual true price for the service/ jobs etc. Making that job one you cannot live from.

Or perhaps it just adds competition that UK consumers want?

 

[greywolf]

Looking at the results of this poll a referendum would condem this country to economic isolation

I think 40% goes to EU counties, that still leaves 60% to the rest of the world and I highly doubt the 40% will just disapear if we were to leave. If you have goods offered and other counties need it they will purchase from you. There is no reason for us to stop trading all together with the EU. Initially the EU was set up for trade, and we can still negotiate trade deals under our own rules, nothing stopping that. So this rubbish about economic isolation is just banded about to scare. Infact we are at the moment, due to EU regualtion, are bared from other trade deals that leaving the EU would open up to us again.

 

[FoxEye]

Can we have a third option, "shake it all about"?

Or "I'm done, ma'am."

 

[Burnsy2023]

There is no reason for us to stop trading all together with the EU. Initially the EU was set up for trade, and we can still negotiate trade deals under our own rules, nothing stopping that. So this rubbish about economic isolation is just banded about to scare.

But getting less preferable trade deals means that we add cost. Having one set of rules even if they are complex does save us money.

 

[darkgen]

Why should we continue accepting rubbish, rather than striving for a better system.

. . . In the interim we declare totalitarianism?
What better system do we adopt and how do we, as a people win over the establishment to implement it? Another thread.

In the interim, use the same framework that got us into Europe to debate and voice whether to stay within it.

 

[badcompany]

But getting less preferable trade deals means that we add cost. Having one set of rules even if they are complex does save us money.

Totally unfounded that we wont get favourable deals.

 

[PsychoPigeon]

How did we ever survive without the unaccountable bloated soviet-style European Union Government? We have a paradise now, let's not give it up.

 

[C64]

Farage owned him, clegg was using unoriginal material from question time guys a muppet.

That's why I hate this country now too many non patriotic citizens.

We seem to be full of left wing pro islam pro europe idiots, islam is the most biggoted backward religion and you got muslims calling farage a bigot pmsl I've heard muslims phoning in calling him racist and a biggot, coming from people who think women are second class citizens.

Europe is great for people in office jobs but suicidal for the semi / unskilled.

Who can compete with people willing to live 10 to a house ? and willing to work for minimum wage forever without holidays sick pay etc etc you get the picture all the things we have fought for and earned stripped away.

 

[Burnsy2023]

. . . In the interim we declare totalitarianism?
What better system do we adopt and how do we, as a people win over the establishment to implement it? Another thread.

In the interim, use the same framework that got us into Europe to debate and voice whether to stay within it.

Personally all the rhetoric and debate over this is already diminishing our influence in Europe. We're slowly shooting ourselves in the foot for what exactly?

 

[Burnsy2023]

Totally unfounded that we wont get favourable deals.

I'm not saying that we necessarily will, that isn't known, but our bargaining position is weaker and even small differences can have huge impacts on our economy.

 

[Burnsy2023]

That's why I hate this country now too many non patriotic citizens.

We seem to be full of left wing pro islam pro europe bigots.

Don't confuse patriotism with ignorance.

 

[Glaucus]

. . . In the interim we declare totalitarianism?
What better system do we adopt and how do we, as a people win over the establishment to implement it? Another thread.

In the interim, use the same framework that got us into Europe to debate and voice whether to stay within it.

What utter rubbish, you don't call this a totalitarianism state, when we don't have a referendum fir every law change of government session. so calling one on that is utterly retarded.