French goverment step down, Far right gains!

[elmarko]

Problem with that is the socialist have done such a good job at convincing everyone that right = evil and left = good. That although i do agree that left is collectivism and right is individualism. AS most people have a false understanding of right/left paradigm calling what i represent right wing is only going to think that i advocate state sanction violence like nazism did. Which is exactly what the socialists wanted to get out of the broken left/right paradigm that they propagate. In fact individualism is the complete opposite of nazism and therefore should not be considered right wing. Neither should capitalism or private property rights be considered right wing because nazism was not about capitalism or private property rights but about big state authoritarianism/socialism.

You are still incorrect.

While I agree that many people misunderstand the differences between left & right.

Nazism again has elements of each.

It's clearly at the top of the authoritarian scale.

Economically, it has strong government ownership in some elements, but no collective ownership (in contrast to marxist theory), it also supports private property.

Socially it's extreme right mixed with nationalism.

In no way other than title were they actually socialists/supports of socialism - if you read up on what socialism actually entails you quickly see how they are incompatible.

It's amusing that you accuse the left of intentionally miss-labelling the right to suit a political goal then do exactly the same the other way around.

The truth is virtually no political party is all one way, but has on average many learn towards each axis (many of which sit near the centre with only a slight lean).

It's also a common misconception to believe that supporting the removal of the state makes you a libertarian by default - but it doesn't .

A person who supports replacing the state as a key power with large business isn't actually a Libertarian - as it simply replaces one somewhat accountable organisation with many unaccountable organisations.

 

[benneh]

Was kitch9 suspended for posting that^?.

 

[robgmun]

Globalisation is inevitable, perhaps it's a case of accepting that fixed notions of national identity are absurd to begin with.

If you take into account the fluid state of cultures & that what many describe as 'British' is actually the amalgamation of a myriad of different cultures ranging from Romans, Vikings, the French & more recently Indian, African & wider European - in each stage we had people like many in this thread, Frightening of change.

If you have a problem with ghettoisation, lack of integration, poor local relations in areas with large ethnic communities, reduction in employment for low skilled workers, competition in the jobs market then let's talk about those issues.

The thing I find highly suspect is that the people who claim to be against immigration on the grounds of the impact on the jobs market/low end workers actually don't give a hoot about those very people in other threads (which in my view implies an underline motive).

But we can't just go around without having any kind of filter at all!

I don't care were you come from, if you have decent skills (doctor, nurse, lawyer, scientist, business entrepreneur etc etc etc) I'd welcome every last one of them with open arms.

What i don't want is unskilled nobodies cramming into our tiny island and ruining the place.

 

[elmarko]

But we can't just go around without having any kind of filter at all!

I don't care were you come from, if you have decent skills (doctor, nurse lawyer, scientist, business entrepreneur etc etc etc) I'd welcome every last one of them with open arms.

What i don't want is unskilled nobodies cramming into our tiny island and ruining the place.

Population transfer & growth is a global issue, something we can't look at simply at the national level.

We live in a global economy, with a global workforce at the mercy of global economic issues more powerful than any single nation state.

The problem is we are still working at the national level for many issues ergo we have these problems.

 

[arctine]

What i don't want is unskilled nobodies cramming into our tiny island and ruining the place.

Well they aren't so that's fine.

 

[robgmun]

Population transfer & growth is a global issue, something we can't look at simply at the national level.

We live in a global economy, with a global workforce at the mercy of global economic issues more powerful than any single nation state.

The problem is we are still working at the national level for many issues ergo we have these problems.

We have to look at it at a national level as that what we as a country have control over. In order to make it global, we would need treatys (sp?) with other countries. Unfortunately the EU is not interested in doing what's best for individual countries and want a border-less EU superstate which is against the national interest and well-being of this country. So it circles back to us.

However you dream of a 'one world' view. It's a very nice utopia but untimely it's a facility and will cause more pain and suffering to the people who are already here.

As i said at the top of the page. It's a shame liberal socialists cannot see beyond their nose and truly believe that is is the best course of action for everybody.

 

[MrMoonX]

What i don't want is unskilled nobodies cramming into our tiny island and ruining the place.

but who is going to do all the jobs the white middle classes dont want to do?

good luck eating out if we adopt a close the door ukip style rubbish

your derp derp country's full attitude is just lol

 

[robgmun]

but who is going to do all the jobs the white middle classes dont want to do?

good luck eating out if we adopt a close the door ukip style rubbish

your derp derp country's full attitude is just lol

So this country only has white middle class poeple? hummmmmmm

derp derp derp derp lol!!

 

[bitslice]

Globalisation is inevitable, perhaps it's a case of accepting that fixed notions of national identity are absurd to begin with.

When have I ever argued against globalisation (or it's impact on jobs)? Not that I like it, but as you say it's inevitable.

I don't make a huge variety of points, so you could at least attribute them correctly

And stop this tired "we had immigration back with the Romans and that was OK" argument,
back then nobody was blowing us up or hacking our heads off for putting the milk in last.

When in the last 100 years have we had anything like the social disruption that the Islamist community has created?

 

[MrMoonX]

So this country only has white middle class poeple? hummmmmmm

derp derp derp derp lol!!

the lack of a living wage actually does mean that no one can live and work here without the topup benefits in unskilled jobs, other than those that come here to work those god awful jobs for god awful money

 

[robgmun]

the lack of a living wage actually does mean that no one can live and work here without the topup benefits in unskilled jobs, other than those that come here to work those god awful jobs for god awful money

I'll leave you to your opinions as you have a track record of gross naivety in such threads. But suffice to say that the benefits bill is unsustainable and the unemployed in this country needs to stop acting so incredibly spoiled.

13 years of Labour has left us with a crippling benefits bill because they were deliberately creating dependency on benefits, in the hope this meant dependency on Labour as well. It wasn't through the goodness of their hearts, it was all about staying in power for as long as possible. By throwing money at the underclass and creating fake council jobs for people that would be savaged in the private sector that did nothing but push bits of paper round to each other.

 

[Tinders]

I'd like to know, what cant we do in this country today that we could not do 10,20 even 50 years ago, what is this social disruption in real terms?

 

[bitslice]

I'd like to know, what cant we do in this country today that we could not do 10,20 even 50 years ago, what is this social disruption in real terms?

Social disruption has nothing to do with changes in situation, it's about disrupting the cohesiveness of a society. Which they manage to disrupt every single week with their stupid antics.

I'm not really interested in sharing a country with a shouty aggressive mysognistic homophobic duplicitous sky pixie backwards culture who hate us, when we have a whole bunch of nice culturally identical Europeans we could be sharing it with

Especially when there are 42 other countries which are an Islamists wet dream to live in, why can't they go where they are wanted?

/

 

[elmarko]

And stop this tired "we had immigration back with the Romans and that was OK" argument,
back then nobody was blowing us up or hacking our heads off for putting the milk in last.

When in the last 100 years have we had anything like the social disruption that the Islamist community has created?

Really?....

 

[benneh]

Really?....

Top marks bitslice. You show less insight than my old garden hose.

 

[bitslice]

Top marks bitslice. You show less insight than my old garden hose

Always amusing to get personal abuse by lefties who never contribute any opinions themselves to a thread, consider yourself another Magnolia clone you didn't even understand the post, laughable.

At least Elmarko consistently tries to address the point made and not the person.

Really?....

"hacking our heads off for putting the milk in last"


Yes really, learn to quote eh?

It's 2014, I don't want to put up with more retarded BS from any pixie worshippers.
Especially pixie BS from a demonstrably inferior culture.

Christianity is all but invisible and it's intended social impact in recent years has generally been well meaning. Islam should be taking notes, not secretly hoping for global domination by the back door.

 

[elmarko]

"hacking our heads off for putting the milk in last"


Yes really,
It's 2014, I don't want to put up with more retarded BS from any pixie worshippers.
Especially pixie BS from a demonstrably inferior culture.

Christianity is all but invisible and it's intended social impact in recent years has generally been well meaning. Islam should be taking notes, not secretly hoping for global domination by the back door.

You said that back in the times of the Romans we didn't have people hacking our heads off.

This is quite clearly wrong.

You also seem to be taking one incident as akin to being standard behaviour for Muslims in the UK (as opposed to the deranged actions of two extremists).

When in the last 100 years have we had anything like the social disruption that the Islamist community has created?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bombings_during_the_Northern_Ireland_Troubles_and_peace_process
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II

It's entirely possible to be critical of the problems of a given religion/certain practices which result in objective human suffering or acting without the consent of individuals (for example, I'd personally advocate the banning of all ceremonies which mutilate the genitalia of children) without losing perspective & becoming an opposing extremist.

 

[XeNoN89]

but who is going to do all the jobs the white middle classes dont want to do?

A separate but related issue - we need to reduce benefits and increase minimum wage a little more so that all the lazy scumbags who just sit around leeching money from the government will actually be forced to go and get those jobs. As it is at the moment a lot of them don't work because they are getting so much in benefits that they don't feel like it's worth it.

 

[bitslice]

You said that back in the times of the Romans we didn't have people hacking our heads off.

This is quite clearly wrong.

Ugh

"hacking our heads off for putting the milk in last"

Different... Duh

You also seem to be taking one incident as akin to being standard behaviour for Muslims in the UK (as opposed to the deranged actions of two extremists).

Hacking people to bits for no good reason appears to be common practice in a lot of Muslim countries, or do Muslims all become little eton schoolboys when they step off the boat? Given their retarded cultural practices turn up in weekly threads then I'd say they are much the same kind of people. I mean what kind of animal stands around taking pictures of a guy rotting on a crucifix?

Even British born Muslims do the same so I'd point to some influence in their community?

world wars

You are just being obtuse and I fail to see the influence of say Christianity in what were inevitable political events.
Which is what I'm referring to, the social disruption of dark ages Islam on modern Britain

It's entirely possible to be critical of the problems of a given religion/certain practices which result in objective human suffering or acting without the consent of individuals (for example, I'd personally advocate the banning of all ceremonies which mutilate the genitalia of children) without losing perspective & becoming an opposing extremist.

What is extreme about wishing we never had this problem foisted upon us in the first place?
What exactly is extreme here? I'm not part of the culture making up religious reasons for FGM.

Most of the threads on here are people simply asking the Muslims to shut the **** up and stop shoving your stupid backwards religion in our face. Same for Evangelicals, same for scientologists.
It's hardly extreme asking for a bit of social respect from an inferior culture.

We never had this level of grief when the Indians turned up, it was just "Oi u smell - Oh wait, 24/7 shops? you can stay, more curry please and OMG you are all doctors? great"

Integration took five years or something? Few even consider them as anything but British now.

The cultural enrichment of Islam is a big fat zero,
even the Polish brought nice sausage with them

Political extremism (as we see with the emergence of BNP) is inevitable when national politics ignores the issue. Or as the case with labour, liberals and the muslim apologists in here, actively subverts the debate.
It's all self interest on their part, they don't want to alienate a community who might vote for them, so they ignore the rest of us because we still have no political voice.

I note that ignoring the people didn't work out well for the French Government

 

[elmarko]

A separate but related issue - we need to reduce benefits and increase minimum wage a little more so that all the lazy scumbags who just sit around leeching money from the government will actually be forced to go and get those jobs. As it is at the moment a lot of them don't work because they are getting so much in benefits that they don't feel like it's worth it.

For that to work we would need a jobs surplus.

Can you demonstrate we have one to begin with?, as all punitive or increased motivational measures aimed at getting people to take 'these jobs' would first require them to exist to begin with.

I agree we need to resolve long term unemployment & the motivational issues which underpin it - but let's use evidence to determine how best to do it (as opposed to gut instinct & 'common sense').