Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Zethor said:
Did you even read the article? At worst, the US provided a bunch of Cubans a cheap service which they could use to communicate. How do you jump from that to orchestrating an uprising?

Google is free of charge, you should stop using it in case Larry Page tries to take over the world.
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I would ask you the same :o

US secretly created 'Cuban Twitter' to stir unrest and undermine government
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Documents show the US government planned to build a subscriber base through "non-controversial content": news messages on soccer, music, and hurricane updates. Later when the network reached a critical mass of subscribers, perhaps hundreds of thousands, operators would introduce political content aimed at inspiring Cubans to organize "smart mobs" — mass gatherings called at a moment's notice that might trigger a Cuban spring, or, as one USAid document put it, "renegotiate the balance of power between the state and society."
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http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/03/us-cuban-twitter-zunzuneo-stir-unrest

99% the tip of the iceberg, Ukraine, Syria, Egypt, Libya or any other country that has had "popular uprisings", would not surprise me in the slightest if the west were funding and orchestrating the chaos.
 
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Craterloads said:
I would ask you the same :o





http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/03/us-cuban-twitter-zunzuneo-stir-unrest

99% the tip of the iceberg, Ukraine, Syria, Egypt, Libya or any other country that has had "popular uprisings", would not surprise me in the slightest if the west were funding and orchestrating the chaos.
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Of course it wouldn't suprise you, you're a conspiracy theorist, it's difficult to surprise people such as yourself because you "know what really goes on there". It's not the abuse, corruption, lack of judicial system and disregard of basic human rights that inspires people to protest. No sir, an US financed Twitter does it. :rolleyes:


elmarko said:
To be fair the west has a proven history of toppling leaders whom we don't like via the back door, most of which are not even a secret any-more & they openly admit it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions
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None of these examples involve hundreds of thousands of people protesting for months/years before the abusive regime collapsed. The US often supports these movements but it does so publicly too and it orchestrates bugger all.
 
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Zethor said:
Of course it wouldn't suprise you, you're a conspiracy theorist, it's difficult to surprise people such as yourself because you "know what really goes on there". It's not the abuse, corruption, lack of judicial system and disregard of basic human rights that inspires people to protest. No sir, an US financed Twitter does it. :rolleyes:
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Wut, conspiracy theorist you say. Two replies and you've already stooped down to childish name calling :D Not surprised by your reaction after embarrassing yourself by not taking your own advice....

Later when the network reached a critical mass of subscribers, perhaps hundreds of thousands, operators would introduce political content aimed at inspiring Cubans to organize "smart mobs" — mass gatherings called at a moment's notice that might trigger a Cuban spring
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In July 2010, Joe McSpedon, a US government official, flew to Barcelona to put the final touches on a secret plan to build a social media project aimed at undermining Cuba's communist government.

McSpedon and his team of high-tech contractors had come in from Costa Rica and Nicaragua, Washington and Denver. Their mission: to launch a messaging network that could reach hundreds of thousands of Cubans. To hide the network from the Cuban government, they would set up a byzantine system of front companies using a Cayman Islands bank account, and recruit unsuspecting executives who would not be told of the company's ties to the US government.
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It's in plain English.
 
Craterloads said:
would not surprise me in the slightest if the west were funding and orchestrating the chaos.
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Zethor said:
Of course it wouldn't surprise you, you're a conspiracy theorist
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Whether he's a "Conspiracy Theorist" or not is irrelevant. The west does have a track record of not only interfering with other countries policies but also sponsoring coo's, funding rebels and outright overthrowing governments. Even democratically elected ones.

Then of course there's our illegal wars, but that's another issue.
 
Sorry but I don't see what any of this has to do with the current crisis in Ukraine. Even if the US has behaved badly in the past, two wrongs don't make a right.
 
Craterloads said:
Wut, conspiracy theorist you say. Two replies and you've already stooped down to childish name calling :D Not surprised by your reaction after embarrassing yourself by not taking your own advice....

It's in plain English.
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You claim that Ukraine, Syria, Egypt, Libya or any other country that has had popular uprisings were funded and orchestrated by the West. This is textbook conspiracy theory crafting which makes you a conspiracy theorist so I have not resorted to name calling, I've just made an observation based on your assertions.

What I've read in plain English were a couple of articles about an alleged US plan that got cancelled and amounted to absolutely nothing (probably due to the fact that you can't get people to protest unless they have a real reason to). From this, you go to the mass protests of hundreds of thousands during the Arab Spring and, more recently, the Ukraine crisis. I would like to see, in plain English, proof that suggests this last part.
 
It seems to me that the "west" is itching for another cold war. We all know there has to be an enemy at all times, and Islamic extremism has run it's course; Bin Laden dead, no 9/11 or 7/7 type large events for a long time, US pulled out of Iraq and Afghanistan, etc, etc. I'm going to be cynical and say the military industrial complex is rubbing its hands with glee over this Russian "aggression". Time to re-open those F-22 orders that were cancelled? More aircraft carriers? More R&D funds?
 
Curio said:
It seems to me that the "west" is itching for another cold war. We all know there has to be an enemy at all times, and Islamic extremism has run it's course; Bin Laden dead, no 9/11 or 7/7 type large events for a long time, US pulled out of Iraq and Afghanistan, etc, etc. I'm going to be cynical and say the military industrial complex is rubbing its hands with glee over this Russian "aggression". Time to re-open those F-22 orders that were cancelled? More aircraft carriers? More R&D funds?
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I think you're a bit confused. It was the country known as the Russian Federation that deployed troups and armoured vehicles on another country's territory, not the "west".
 
Zethor said:
You claim that Ukraine, Syria, Egypt, Libya or any other country that has had popular uprisings were funded and orchestrated by the West. This is textbook conspiracy theory crafting which makes you a conspiracy theorist so I have not resorted to name calling, I've just made an observation based on your assertions.

What I've read in plain English were a couple of articles about an alleged US plan that got cancelled and amounted to absolutely nothing (probably due to the fact that you can't get people to protest unless they have a real reason to). From this, you go to the mass protests of hundreds of thousands during the Arab Spring and, more recently, the Ukraine crisis. I would like to see, in plain English, proof that suggests this last part.
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While I'm not disagreeing with you completely, you do realize that uprisings are pretty much what covert organizations (MI6, CIA, etc) specialize in, right? There have been plenty of examples in the past, so it's not a stretch to suggest they were behind at least some of the stuff going on in recent years.
 
Zethor said:
I think you're a bit confused. It was the country known as the Russian Federation that deployed troups and armoured vehicles on another country's territory, not the "west".
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I think you're the one who's confused and didn't read my post properly?
 
Curio said:
It seems to me that the "west" is itching for another cold war. We all know there has to be an enemy at all times, and Islamic extremism has run it's course; Bin Laden dead, no 9/11 or 7/7 type large events for a long time, US pulled out of Iraq and Afghanistan, etc, etc. I'm going to be cynical and say the military industrial complex is rubbing its hands with glee over this Russian "aggression". Time to re-open those F-22 orders that were cancelled? More aircraft carriers? More R&D funds?
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LOL if "the west" wanted another cold war they could have had one a long time ago - I'd suggest the Russian invasion of Georgia in 2008 was the time to wake up to the fact we're already in one. The west has been slow to wake up to the threat posed by Russia, while we've been preparing for defence cuts and the post-Afghanistan reality Putin has been arming himself and preparing for war. We've given him every chance to be a respected international partner but imo we can no longer ignore the threat.
 
Curio said:
While I'm not disagreeing with you completely, you do realize that uprisings are pretty much what covert organizations (MI6, CIA, etc) specialize in, right? There have been plenty of examples in the past, so it's not a stretch to suggest they were behind at least some of the stuff going on in recent years.
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Ironically it was the release of a wikileaks document, which the US government tried to suppress that started the Arab spring.
 
Zethor said:
You claim that Ukraine, Syria, Egypt, Libya or any other country that has had popular uprisings were funded and orchestrated by the West. This is textbook conspiracy theory crafting which makes you a conspiracy theorist so I have not resorted to name calling, I've just made an observation based on your assertions.
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Actually I said "would not surprise me in the slightest if the west were funding and orchestrating the chaos." Which in fact there is supporting evidence. Anyhow that's a little different from "claim" as you put it, but hey let's ignore the facts so you can justify your silly name calling escapades.

What I've read in plain English were a couple of articles about an alleged US plan that got cancelled and amounted to absolutely nothing (probably due to the fact that you can't get people to protest unless they have a real reason to). From this, you go to the mass protests of hundreds of thousands during the Arab Spring and, more recently, the Ukraine crisis. I would like to see, in plain English, proof that suggests this last part.
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Talk about burying your head in the sand, a covert leaked operation by the US to stir up political unrest using social media that is strikingly similar to how popular uprisings have occurred recently around the world. Love how you attempt to downplay the complexity and severity of the operation and the great lengths the US went to to put this into action :)

For more than two years, ZunZuneo grew and reached at least 40,000 subscribers. But documents reveal the team found evidence that Cuban officials tried to trace the text messages and break into the ZunZuneo system. USAID told the AP that the project stopped in September 2012 when a government grant ended.
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Probably has something to do with it being cancelled
 
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scorza said:
LOL if "the west" wanted another cold war they could have had one a long time ago - I'd suggest the Russian invasion of Georgia in 2008 was the time to wake up to the fact we're already in one. The west has been slow to wake up to the threat posed by Russia, while we've been preparing for defence cuts and the post-Afghanistan reality Putin has been arming himself and preparing for war. We've given him every chance to be a respected international partner but imo we can no longer ignore the threat.
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True, but in 2008 the "War on Terror" was still in full swing. Now it's over. What are the military supposed to do now to justify their budget and reverse any cuts?

As for Russia.....if the Crimea is as far as they go (which I think it will be) then I doff my cap to them, to be quite honest. I would have done the same thing in their situation. Obviously, any further incursions would be worrying, but even then I very much doubt Putin has designs on eastern Europe, Baltics, etc.
 
Curio said:
I think you're the one who's confused and didn't read my post properly?
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If the West is "itching" for another Cold War, why is it that the Russian Federation annexed a foreign territory? If anything, the West has been passive or reacting as slow as snails. Pick up a history book and find out when was the last time a country annexed the territory of another country in Europe.
 
Craterloads said:
Actually I said "would not surprise me in the slightest if the west were funding and orchestrating the chaos." Which in fact there is supporting evidence. Anyhow that's a little different from "claim" as you put it, but hey let's ignore the facts so you can justify your silly name calling escapades.



Talk about burying your head in the sand, a covert leaked operation by the US to stir up political unrest using social media that is strikingly similar to how popular uprisings have occurred recently around the world. Love how you attempt to downplay the complexity and severity of the operation and the great lengths the US went to to put this into action :)
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Ok it's not a claim but it "wouldn't surprise you".. As for the evidence, it actually suggests the opposite of what "wouldn't suprise you" - a plan to "orchestrate" an uprising is destined to fail because people protest when they are p*ssed off, not when you want them to. Ergo, Cuba.

The operation was indeed complex and severe and the US did go to great lengths to put it into action. Yet.. zero results. I haven't seen one Cuban protesting, not one. What does that tell you? Maybe, just maybe, that's not how protests work?
 
Zethor said:
If the West is "itching" for another Cold War, why is it that the Russian Federation annexed a foreign territory? If anything, the West has been passive or reacting as slow as snails. Pick up a history book and find out when was the last time a country annexed the territory of another country in Europe.
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Because Crimea is of vital strategic importance and the new bunch in Ukraine were wanting to move closer to the EU and possibly join NATO at some point down the line? You think Russia would be OK with that? You think they would be in a "let's talk about this" kind of a mood? They had to put their foot down on Syria or lose their Mediterranean base at Tartus due to NATO wanting to get involved, and now they might lose their Black Sea base at Sevastapol? Of course they're going to do something about it.
 
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