looking for a new, small, cheap city car. Up, i10 or second hand?

This is the sort of thing I was thinking - though I'd expect lower to be achievable seeing as the mileage doesn't even need to be 10kpa

I can guarantee it's not the cheapest way to do it, and I've no idea how spartan a "take up" is, but it's a low cost way to use a new car for a couple of years

http://www.contracthireandleasing.c...brokers/yes-car-lease/volkswagen/up/28272161/

You can't lose sight of the fact that you'll have spent circa £3.5k in two years on what is really not a great car (though seems the best of this bunch) to simply drive round the corner and back when a used car will probably lose nearly half that if you pick carefully. Used one's start at about £6.5k for what is still very close to being a new car, I can't see past that being the best value way to get one.

Checking the likes of drivethedeal for best price on a new one is worthwhile too

edit - circa £7.8k so £1.3k more than a year old one, suggests depreciation will be at worst £2.6k over two years, in reality it should slow in year 2
 
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How accurate is it that your partner "needs" a car to get to work? At a guess it's <5 miles away from home?

It may be more sensible to to hold off the purchase until the house move is all done and dusted. You may have more or less money than you currently think and therefore a different arrangement could be better? Sounds like we're only talking a matter of weeks?

it's around 6 miles, but it's an awkward route for public transport. A scheduled taxi is an option too, but I'd imagine that would cost more than a car (as may public transport!) in terms of timing they're basically waiting for us now. there's no chain at either end so it will go as quickly as our solicitors and surveyors can go, so yes probably talking weeks rather than months. My missus is a teacher so hours are quite random depending on meetings, parents evenings etc.

I think holding off on it might be unavoidable the way it's going though - I think the lead time on a new car might be starting to get to the point where the house will come first, meaning I'll be on taxi duty ;)

our monthly budget is worked out meticulously (YNAB and spreadsheets ftw!); we can afford a lot more per month than we are looking at but want to just go for something very cheap, small and predictable. It's the paying cash out of our pocket that we want to avoid though as that cash is best left in our pockets at the moment with all the figures flying around for house-move associated stuff.

I'm being tight for the sake of being tight and watching the pennies and minimising the impact of going from £0 monthly budget for her transport and £150 monthly overnight.
 
lmao,

When you first said 3,500k annual mileage (not a type) I was like lolwat. You're going to be doing 3,500,000 miles per year in city driving....?

I'm such an idiot. spent so long stressing that I wans't making the milage up and then basically said she's driving 3,500,000 miles a year :P sorry about that. I've corrected the OP
 
While you've said you want something newer/predictiable costs, to be honest, if you're trying to save as much money as possible, you'd be better getting something for ~£1k with as long MOT/tax/ as possible, and putting away £x/month for repairs.

At the end of 6-12 months when your house purchase is done and dusted and you've got more idea of where your finances are, you've got a car which you can sell for not much less than you paid for it, and if nothing goes wrong, 12 months worth of "savings".
 
Thanks for all of the input. I'm going to re consider my options I think. looks like I'll be again looking at either a nearly new car depending on how I can finance it and, as much as I don't really want another banger (had a few!) an older car to just run to the ground for a year.

the older cheap car for a year makes the most financial sense, but it brings in the overhanging question of reliability and added costs (repairs, insurance, tax et al) We're quite stranded where we live with no friends or family close by so taking a car to a garage and getting it fixed and then picking it up and getting to work and back etc are all a bit more difficult than it usually is for most who could get help from family or friends nearby to help out. that's part of the predictability factor I'm talking about. I'll reconsider it but It's not the best solution for our circumstances really - the hassle! lol. pretty done with having old bangers after having a few and we are starting again with the house-move no known garages / mechanics etc. I've got a banger in the garage now which just needs tax, MOT and some repairs (bit of crash damage) but it's just not worth the hassle!

I have actually been offered my Granda's 1.8 automatic rover 25 (w reg) for next to nothing, but the insurance and tax and fuel is crazy! it almost amounts to being as much as a new vw Up. in fact that's what set me off looking in the first place. we were offered the car but had concerns over the running costs and reliability of it, besides maybe being too big for Laura. We did some quotes and some sums and it just didn't seem worth it. It worked out about £1300+/year to run not taking into account the inevitable MOT failures and other repairs.

having a hard time justifying / conveying the money situation on here - it's not that it's tight, it's just a choice that we're not going for a 20, 18, 14, or even a 12k car - just something cheap (sub 10k) and small because she's not the most confident driver and would appreciate something new, cheap small and reliable more than anything else really. I'm contradicting myself all over the place but I guess I'm seeing more value in convenience and ease and predictability than in money/cost at the moment (while trying to keep the cost per month low at the same time for the sake of it) - bah so hard to describe and say without sounding like a total snob! We're okay with a high percentage of what we will be paying per month will be basically be paying for an easier life.

hope that makes sense!
 
I would really check your maths very carefully if you've come to the conclusion that its cheaper to buy a brand new car for 3.5k miles a year than it is to drive a free Rover 25. Whilst there is risk in an old automatic it's the sort of car you simply scrap if the autobox fails, rather than incur repair bills.

You are simply not doing big enough miles to see any credible fuel economy benefit whatever you buy, so fuel economy is more or less a non-issue.
 
This is obviously not an exact science, but if you buy intelligently, there's no reason why a 3 year old car wouldn't be perfectly reliable. It would be very different to buying a something 10 years old with 3 or 4 owners from new.

Buying brand new isn't the only way to avoid that Rover ;)
 
In your position I would just go and buy a 6n 1.4 polo for £300 with service history and run it until it dies.
 
[TW]Fox;26130123 said:
I would really check your maths very carefully if you've come to the conclusion that its cheaper to buy a brand new car for 3.5k miles a year than it is to drive a free Rover 25. Whilst there is risk in an old automatic it's the sort of car you simply scrap if the autobox fails, rather than incur repair bills.

You are simply not doing big enough miles to see any credible fuel economy benefit whatever you buy, so fuel economy is more or less a non-issue.

It's mostly the insurance cost for the free rover 25 mate. you're looking into the thousands to insure it with a 26 year old lass with 0 NCB in Bolton. Because of where we live, our age, my claim and where we are moving to, insurance is really expensive. mine literally doubled when I moved down here from Sunderland a few years ago. I've only just started paying less than £1000 to insure my 2011 fiesta S1600! Most people are more used to paying around £250-500 for insurance but we're in a different league here! It's very expensive and can make putting a banger on the road uneconomical. I can understand if you didn't realise it would cost so much to insure an old car as it's not normal to be honest. my friends who moved here (albeit still miles away from me) still have theirs registered at parents addresses etc - dodgy as anything but they save money doing so and have even made a claim with it like that (I never would)

It gets to the point where it seems daft to be paying over £150 to insure, tax and fuel a W reg rover, which is too big for her (and she would want automatic gearbox driving lessons too (really)). versus less than £150 for a brand new Up which is going to be dependable and probably never see an MOT or garage (except service) in it's short ownership. I'm not blind as to what's going on with finance / pcp deals. I know there's interest and a balloon payment to settle it at the end; you never really have the car but it is worth something when you come to trade it in and in our case maybe worth more than average when we hand it back with half the miles we paid for.

cost is not the main object here really; it's a balance of the value we get out of having a hassle free life at a time when we need a hassle free life. That's kind of priceless in a way, just remember that we're choosing the cheap car route to be even more sensible and sensitive to our situation - we could go for a 20k+ car but it's pointless. I think if you can get a brand new or nearly new car for about the same monthly outlay as a gifted banger then why wouldn't you? I guess you have nothing to loose taking the gifted banger, and I think that is your point, and if it is, then okay; I see.
It's a different story when gifted banger either needs repairs, tests, money or time spending on it. You said 'simply scrap it' but it's not really that simple when it comes down to actually doing it and then replacing it.

I didn't really specify a lot of these feelings towards hassle free motoring in the OP as I didn't really expect this thread to go the way it has. I find that I'm having to justify a lot of my reasoning here :S

I do appreciate your advice and I am taking it on board, (i've started a new spreadsheet, it got serious) but perhaps when you have read my explanation you will see where I'm coming from. I have not parted with any money yet, so I can still be saved lol.

on a side note I do like the look of the new generation C1, and the old one is very very cheap. shame Citroen's website is so bad! will try and get to a dealer on Saturday for a peak.
 
Whilst there's probably a compelling case for that Polo, I personally wouldn't want to run something 'until it dies' again. I had a Rover 45 and it got to the point where I held my breath before I turned the key each time.

It's not a nice feeling, in my case because I lived a long way from work but I can see why the OP, with limited help available near to him, wants to have confidence that his car will be unlikely to let him down.
 
oh.
It seems as all of this is going on, our lass is talking to someone at work who is selling a second hand Ka that she would have instead of any of the above mentioned solutions.

I may consider it but seriously cannot be bothered with another banger! Can you draw up a contract with your missus to rule that I never have to take it to the damn garage when it's petrol cap falls in and it's arse falls out?

my new house does have a pit in the garage though... may be needing that.

(I'm as confused as you are)
 
Whilst there's probably a compelling case for that Polo, I personally wouldn't want to run something 'until it dies' again. I had a Rover 45 and it got to the point where I held my breath before I turned the key each time.

It's not a nice feeling, in my case because I lived a long way from work but I can see why the OP, with limited help available near to him, wants to have confidence that his car will be unlikely to let him down.

exactly that.
 
You mentioned in your last post, though, about having an 'asset' because the car will probably still have low mileage when you choose to get rid. For me, that's even more reason to buy used.

Obviously with these 'you never own the car' deals the person that benefits from this is the one that buys the car at 3 years old when the person before them has spent £XXX per month for 3 years, then handed it back. It will be 1 owner and have FSH.

If you did something like this and kept it for 3 years you could sell a 6 year old, still low mileage car for something, be that a deposit towards a better car or money in your pocket if the circumstances change. Yes, this will be lessened by the interest you have paid over the 3 years, but how much you pay is to an extent up to you.
 
oh.
It seems as all of this is going on, our lass is talking to someone at work who is selling a second hand Ka that she would have instead of any of the above mentioned solutions.

I may consider it but seriously cannot be bothered with another banger! Can you draw up a contract with your missus to rule that I never have to take it to the damn garage when it's petrol cap falls in and it's arse falls out?

my new house does have a pit in the garage though... may be needing that.

(I'm as confused as you are)

Buying from a private seller is a risk and you cannot draw up any contract. Once they sell it to you, it becomes your problem, even if the engine randomly eats it self 5miles from their house. Caveat emptor!

It's always a risk buying a 2nd hand car, especially some cheap small thing for running around in. But therein lies he beauty in that it's soo cheap. For your first 2monthly payments on some little city car you could have a 2nd hand car that will then cost you £0 to hire each month after. You can then put that money saved into an account to use for a rainy day, keeping some spare for servicing or any little niggles you get.

At the end of the 2yrs even after servicing and MOT/TAX, you're likely to be greatly out on top vs your £200pcm on some little city car. By that time the initial financial hit of the new house will have gone, your financial outgoings will be known and manageable and you'll be in a better position to either flog his car on for what you bought it or keep it as super cheap motoring.
 
One point I've picked up on as well which would put me off a new car on lease/PCP/etc.

You've mentioned a couple of times that she's not the most confident driver. Without this meaning to sound like a criticism of her driving, would you be happy with:

a) Her driving around in a tinfoil can with no crumple zones (which is basically what these little superminis are)?
b) A car which isn't yours, that if she dings it you may be contractually obliged to repair using "approved" (read as expensive) repair centres or face huge bills at the end of the contract?
 
Still have not really made a move on anything here. sounds like my granda's rover 25 is going up to Aberdeen for my aunty who's car's gearbox and clutch has just gone bang, so my parents are now driving it up from Sunderland to Aberdeen to give it to her. She was offered it before as a 2nd car but turned it down for the same reasons. She's in a similar position to me - no help close by it's just her + husband and 2 year old kid all the way up there! Hope my Granda's rover serves her proud!

The Ford Ka I spoke of has been sold too, but that was going to be pointless anyway - insurance prices were getting daft again (more on that below)

You mentioned in your last post, though, about having an 'asset' because the car will probably still have low mileage when you choose to get rid. For me, that's even more reason to buy used.

Obviously with these 'you never own the car' deals the person that benefits from this is the one that buys the car at 3 years old when the person before them has spent £XXX per month for 3 years, then handed it back. It will be 1 owner and have FSH.

If you did something like this and kept it for 3 years you could sell a 6 year old, still low mileage car for something, be that a deposit towards a better car or money in your pocket if the circumstances change. Yes, this will be lessened by the interest you have paid over the 3 years, but how much you pay is to an extent up to you.

I can't ignore your very good point about coming along and taking a car someone else has just paid the depreciation on (like I may be about to), however... I can't seem to make the finances work. I'd need to take a loan for around 7k, and then after 3 years I'd be left with a 6 year old car and a loan. a further 2 years and I'd have no load but I'd have a car worth X amount - how much is an 8 year old £9k RRP car going to be worth? and how much will I have spent on it in the mean time? I know it makes sense to buy a nearly new car I bought mine at 1 year old and saved thousands, but I got mine with cash from a family loan which is very cheap - and I can't do that again.


Buying from a private seller is a risk and you cannot draw up any contract. Once they sell it to you, it becomes your problem, even if the engine randomly eats it self 5miles from their house. Caveat emptor!

It's always a risk buying a 2nd hand car, especially some cheap small thing for running around in. But therein lies he beauty in that it's soo cheap. For your first 2monthly payments on some little city car you could have a 2nd hand car that will then cost you £0 to hire each month after. You can then put that money saved into an account to use for a rainy day, keeping some spare for servicing or any little niggles you get.

At the end of the 2yrs even after servicing and MOT/TAX, you're likely to be greatly out on top vs your £200pcm on some little city car. By that time the initial financial hit of the new house will have gone, your financial outgoings will be known and manageable and you'll be in a better position to either flog his car on for what you bought it or keep it as super cheap motoring.

I'm looking into doing this now once again but I'm loosing the battle against the insurance companies - the risk is that in 2 years it may half, in 3 years it may be less, or it could be the same - eitherway I'll be paying more per month and will end up in the same position as I'm in now, albeit with less financial risk.

For example, right now, to buy this car:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/used-ca...er-fpa-201404053092759?atcido=soc-cars-twt001

would cost me £148 per month extra just to insure it. it's almost certainly going to need work too, which 14 year old fiesta doesn't? I picked that as an example as it's already got a long MOT and 6 month tax so it *may* be the case that I'll never have to spend a penny on it in a year - but that's a total unknown.

yZ80f4R.png

made mistake on image, it's 1.25 not 1.2
[fully comprehensive, less than 4k miles per year (3rd party F&T is more expensive)]

that's adding it to my aviva policy which incurs a slight discount; Laura's done some comparisons tonight and they have all come out around the same amounts. this insurance thing is a real sticking point! Adding an up at this point would cost me about £40 / month to insure, but it comes with free insurance for 1 year so I'd be pocketing the £40 and saving it to pay for the next policy, which should be lower after we both have another years NCB etc.

One point I've picked up on as well which would put me off a new car on lease/PCP/etc.

You've mentioned a couple of times that she's not the most confident driver. Without this meaning to sound like a criticism of her driving, would you be happy with:

a) Her driving around in a tinfoil can with no crumple zones (which is basically what these little superminis are)?
b) A car which isn't yours, that if she dings it you may be contractually obliged to repair using "approved" (read as expensive) repair centres or face huge bills at the end of the contract?

a: It's crossed my mind, but admittedly I have not looked into it; I'm [blindly] going off the Ncap rating of 5 stars for the Up, but I'll be honest before I google it - I'm not sure if city cars are in a different type of Ncap rating system or not. 99% of her driving will on 30MPH roads. I may be wrong but I'd assume a 2014 Up would be safer than a 2001 fiesta, polo etc? just guessing though I've not researched anything to do with safety.

b: I'm aware of that too and it's a small concern but not too bad. She's not the most confident driver based on only having driven my very well looked after car 3 or 4 times in the last 2 years, before that in her little skoda felicia she was fine; overly cautious if anything - never bumped that car! but she wasn't bothered if she did. not sure how she will be with a new car but she definitely would not be careless with it; far from it.

the confidence I speak of comes from the size of the car really. The city car class we're looking at is perfectly acceptable.
 
Insurance cost is silly, if your partner passed her test some years ago then unless she has a conviction for dangerous driving or something equally incriminating, she should not be paying £3k for a 2001 Fiesta, even if she lives in Liverpool or somewhere. Look for insurance harder, and don't pay monthly.
 
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